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Code Igniter vs Laravel

#11
(11-14-2014, 04:02 PM)jg6075 Wrote: I think the reason I like CI and have stuck with is its simplicity: what you see is what you get. That, and it's stable and has maintained a consistent API. And a healthy dose of nostalgia, of course.

Laravel has a lot of great features, active community, and it has definitely revitalized the PHP community, but it wasn't for me. Laravel and its community is sort of indicative of a lot larger trends in the PHP community I don't personally care for. There's a lot of purist attitudes regarding 'true OOP' and playing Design Pattern bingo. To me, popular current frameworks like Laravel and Symfony represent an opposite extreme to the spaghettified PHP-4 style code (think Wordpress) that has given PHP a bad reputation. Instead of loose procedural code, there's this seemingly insane trend towards enterprise Java style overengineering and massive bloat in accomplishing relatively simple tasks. The other thing I'm not a fan of is the rewrite culture around these frameworks, how a lot of them don't seem averse to writing API-breaking changes frequently.

That's all well and good, since it's a matter of preference. But, I also see a lot of snarky comments directed at people who stick with frameworks like CI, as if they're a disgrace to the community. It doesn't make sense to me, since CI -- although not super elegant -- gets the job done without a ton of disgusting code. And that's what matters, right?

That being said, there's no reason CI shouldn't be supporting PHP > 5.3 features at this point, as that version is even approaching end of life (or has already, I forget). Granted, it's fairly easy to integrate things like Composer, namespaces, newer language constructs, etc. since CI is so open ended.

Basically, don't worry about what's "cool", since "cool" changes all the time in web dev. Focus on using something that's proven, stable, and fits your preferences/needs. For me, CodeIgniter does that.

That pretty much sums it up lol. I wish I had something to add, but that's pretty much how I feel about it lol.
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#12
All these people keep saying codeigniter is "proven and stable". I'm a codeigniter fan, but when sessions have been broken for years, it's kinda hard to back that claim. Laravel is fully unit tested and 100% stable. There are benefits to codeigniter over laravel and vice versa, but 'stability' is not one of them.

Narf has been putting in a lot of effort into updating the sessions library for 3.0. I'm looking forward to it.

Just remember, that Laravel is a really well thought out framework headed and supported by some of the more advanced php programmers out there. Whether we like it or not, the direction of the PHP language and Laravel are moving along hand in hand. At the rate it's been going for the last few years, Codeigniter will become completely obsolete if it doesn't play serious catch up.

#13
(11-17-2014, 11:35 AM)maxbrokman Wrote: Things CodeIgniter does better than Laravel

1. It's a bit faster maybe

Once you put Varnish in front of Laravel, then that point goes out of the window.

One thing that I like about Laravel is that lots of packages are available for it.  Check this out as an example:

Code:
http://www.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/2mvrek/laravel_5_scheduler/

I had to write my own scheduler with CI, as there wasn't one I could find.  But here it will be for Laravel 5.  and 5?  Damn, this framework is moving along and CI 3 still hasn't been delivered!

(11-26-2014, 06:21 AM)albertleao Wrote: Just remember, that Laravel is a really well thought out framework headed and supported by some of the more advanced php programmers out there. Whether we like it or not, the direction of the PHP language and Laravel are moving along hand in hand. At the rate it's been going for the last few years, Codeigniter will become completely obsolete if it doesn't play serious catch up.

Agreed.  Shame we don't have some of those "advanced php programmers" here.  I may wait until 5 is out and then go through the framework source.  

#14
For me all frameworks have here rights of course. I like the rapid development with CI. For Laravel as e.g. i dont like the every day new version terminator modus. But hey, test a few frameworks and use that one you can get fast results for you project.

Think about you need to be a friend to your framework and not a grumbler, then you will get success ;o)


#15
(11-26-2014, 11:01 AM)no1youknowz Wrote:
(11-17-2014, 11:35 AM)maxbrokman Wrote: Things CodeIgniter does better than Laravel

1. It's a bit faster maybe

Once you put Varnish in front of Laravel, then that point goes out of the window.

Varnish doesn't do much for Web Application. We use over 30 internally. When each persons needs to log in (LDAP) and therefore each session is different varnish is worthless. Of course if you are talking about 99% static pages. Then Varnish is great but, at that point the framework or server doesn't matter. a RaspberryPi Running LAMP and the mosted bloated slowest framework you can find could spit out those pages directly into varnish and cache them for 12 hours.

One thing that I like about Laravel is that lots of packages are available for it.  Check this out as an example:




Code:
http://www.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/2mvrek/laravel_5_scheduler/

I had to write my own scheduler with CI, as there wasn't one I could find.  But here it will be for Laravel 5.  and 5?  Damn, this framework is moving along and CI 3 still hasn't been delivered!

PHP (and therefore CodeIgniter) supports composer just head over to packagist and go shopping... The best packages are framework agnostic. Whenever I need a new library I head to packagist first before anywhere else. I think I am using over 20 packages at last count. Look at http://thephpleague.com/ some of the best PHP dev's are working on those. I don't think they are Laravel specific (IIRC) which means ANY framework can use them.
I wouldn't brag about it moving forward so fast. Who is left updating a Laravel 4 applications after everyone has moved to Laravel 5? Who's patching v4 package bugs and adding new features? (does anyone remember Laravel 3?) I have over 200 controllers and 100 models in just one application alone. I mean who in their right mind wants to update that year after year after year because my framework just wants to be "cool"?




(11-26-2014, 06:21 AM)albertleao Wrote: Just remember, that Laravel is a really well thought out framework headed and supported by some of the more advanced php programmers out there. Whether we like it or not, the direction of the PHP language and Laravel are moving along hand in hand. At the rate it's been going for the last few years, Codeigniter will become completely obsolete if it doesn't play serious catch up.

Agreed.  Shame we don't have some of those "advanced php programmers" here.  I may wait until 5 is out and then go through the framework source.  

Catch up to what? The paying client could careless if it's QuickBasic running as a CGI or Laravel 5? Who's paying your bills? The customers or the developers?

#16
(11-26-2014, 06:21 AM)albertleao Wrote: All these people keep saying codeigniter is "proven and stable". I'm a codeigniter fan, but when sessions have been broken for years, it's kinda hard to back that claim. Laravel is fully unit tested and 100% stable. There are benefits to codeigniter over laravel and vice versa, but 'stability' is not one of them.

Narf has been putting in a lot of effort into updating the sessions library for 3.0. I'm looking forward to it.

Just remember, that Laravel is a really well thought out framework headed and supported by some of the more advanced php programmers out there. Whether we like it or not, the direction of the PHP language and Laravel are moving along hand in hand. At the rate it's been going for the last few years, Codeigniter will become completely obsolete if it doesn't play serious catch up.

To your comment on "the direction of the PHP language and Laravel are moving along hand in hand" Do you think it’s because Laravel changes to what is "cool" year over year. It’s going on it’s 3rd rewrite (full version changes 3,4,5) in 3 years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laravel (February 22, 2012). I have CodeIgniter code running the latest version of CodeIgniter older than Laravel still make the company I work for hard cash.


I tried to switch our companies team and our software over to Laravel when it was version 3. Only 3 months into the process the Laravel Dev told everyone "Laravel 4 is right around the corner don't use Laravel 3”. Laravel 4 was still buggy as heck what was I suppose to do? That's when I left Laravel and came back to CodeIgniter. Seems Laravel 5 is “changing” yet again from what I understand. What is their long term support policy “hang on it’s going to be a bumpy ride”? Unfortunately, I can't work that way. After I told my boss the 3 months of work that our team used to “try” Laravel was wasted he wasn’t to happy. Of course when I told him we didn’t need to upgrade our servers (because Laravel is slower and uses more memory) he seemed to cheer up a little.

If you create applications you don't need to support for more than a year or 2 this is great. I can image all the package dev’s will be moving on to the latest and greatest version of Laravel because like you. “Why support outdated code” right? I hope your not using any 3rd party Laravel 4 packages in your software. Look how many are supporting Laravel 3 these days? The Laravel 3 users certainly “got left holding the bag” Glad I bailed when I did.

If I followed the Laravel path I would need to update my code every year just to “keeping up with the Jones”. Honestly at some point it is just your dev’s ego’s you are stroking just because they want “new toys”? You can get a good sense of the maturity level that uses a certain framework by the amount of fanboy comments you see on the boards. Honestly the “CodeIgniter is like a dead horse!” followed by another 30 lemmings “ha ha ha ya it should just die ha ha ha”. Says a lot for the user base.

Sure you could save a few lines of code here and there but, are you going to tell me CodeIgniter would hold you back from making money? Where I work new features and customer support rings the cash register. Our customers could careless if I am running the latest version of Laravel, CodeIgniter, raw PHP, Ruby, Perl or even ASP. Day after day, year after year (try saying that with Laravel) our company makes money using CodeIgniter. Don’t forget CI can Composer in ANY package Laravel can. Thank’s for namespacing YOUR code for us Big Grin and yes we write PHPunit tests internally.

Another thing to consider is Long term support for teaching a PHP framework over a few school semesters.
If you had to teach PHP framework programming with Laravel it would be a nightmare. You have 15 students that take PHP frameworks 101 in there first year (Laravel 3). 15 more the next year take PHP frameworks 101 (now Laravel 4). Finally all 30 students take PHP frameworks 102 in the 3rd year (second year for the second group) and it’s a complete a different framework (Laravel 5)! Most colleges and Universities are 4 years can you imagine the nightmare this could create!

I realize CI will change some stuff to support some of the “time tested” patterns (you all remember PSR0 right ya Laravel jumped on that didn’t they?).

I just hope it doesn't change just to “stay cool”.

#17
(11-26-2014, 05:23 PM)dmyers Wrote: Varnish doesn't do much for Web Application. We use over 30 internally. When each persons needs to log in (LDAP) and therefore each session is different varnish is worthless. Of course if you are talking about 99% static pages. Then Varnish is great but, at that point the framework or server doesn't matter. a RaspberryPi Running LAMP and the mosted bloated slowest framework you can find could spit out those pages directly into varnish and cache them for 12 hours.

You are of course correct.  Varnish doesn't work in situations of dynamic content, for full-page caching.  I came across that issue myself.  Actually, with a clever hack, it CAN do dynamic content.  I'm not going to explain how due to it's something unique to my company. Smile 

(11-26-2014, 05:23 PM)dmyers Wrote: I have over 200 controllers and 100 models in just one application alone. I mean who in their right mind wants to update that year after year after year because my framework just wants to be "cool"?

I have a similar count with controllers, models and I have about 100 custom libraries.  I don't care about being cool.  I just care about being able to keep the level of sanity and pushing new features easily when requested by marketing.  I will be moving away from CI next year.  There is much more you can do that CI doesn't allow you to.  Not going to explain, as evidenced in other parts of this forum.  It's like beating a dead horse.

(11-26-2014, 05:23 PM)dmyers Wrote: Catch up to what? The paying client could careless if it's QuickBasic running as a CGI or Laravel 5? Who's paying your bills? The customers or the developers?

Well, I am both.  I am the customer and the developer.  I will move as fast as I need to and outpace the competition.  Being left behind has no advantage and will ensure loss of money.

#18
oh nice to read all respon are member, for me as new dev i never use framework before and realiaze when i graduate from campus, many company required frame work, as i said need one month learing bassic and you can go fast as fast fariuos,lol. any way for new bie CI is better than any framework without bullying another framework but depend on your neccesary :p

#19
Overwhelming, oh my god. I did not expect all those answers and different opinions. Thank you a lot, all of your suggestions were in a sort helpful. As I am a very freaking fast learner I decided to use laravel, CI and Yii in a parallel, it was not as ez as I though but it gave me some perspective over the things. For now I will stick with CI till the full stable 3, then I will translate maybe into laravel 5. Until now I learned that CI is fast, very fast to be learn and used in public projects. I can write furiously and get the s*it done in no time. But in order to be pr0, to get in deep sh(t I definitely should look at laravel. I hope in a year I will be able to decide in a sec what framework to use.
I loved the community, + for CI Tongue.

So... lets see what'ca got CI GURUZ.

Best regards,
g3n1u5!

#20
In response to my previous post.

When I said "advanced php programmers" I was in no way knocking any codeigniter programmers. All I meant was that the programmers and developers of laravel are using some of the most advanced php functionality while codeigniter is not. Sure, you can easily implement them into codeigniter yourself, but that's not the point. Unfortunately with how far behind codeigniter has fallen behind you start losing out on some benefits of being a top framework.

For example, if you go through packagist for composer packages, you'll notice that many of the top packages are specifically written to work with Laravel and it's service providers. Sure they'll work with any other framework, but you may be missing out on some functionality.


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