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CI4 CMS

#1
I am not sure if there is already a discussion about this topic but here we go...

I am really excited about CI4, I think that if it is done correctly it will be a framework that has a big chance of becoming the new Laravel in terms of popularity ( a bit hard since Laravel has awesome comunication. It's like Pokemon GO for PHP lol )

In my opinion a powerful CMS built on the same premises of CI4 could turn CI a major success. Imagine if I could say to my clients to use CI4 CMS instead of WP... Wow... That would be awesome... For the first time to put together a real framework and a CMS that can actually become popular.

I notice that there were some CMS like pyrocms but they gave up on CI... At the moment I see there is http://www.getfuelcms.com/ ( I really don't like the name because it gives the idea that it's made on fuel framework and it's also a big name )
All the others seem pretty unfinished or with websites that won't ever appeal users outside from CI that's for sure. Plus all the admins seem so old.. I have to be honest I didn't try any because I feel problems are coming.

Well my idea was to stop building thousands of "weak" CMS for CI and get the community together to build the most powerful CMS that could be used by CI and non CI people. Of course if you wanted to develop plugins / modules you had to do it in CI.

This CMS could be done by community but I think it's really important to be supported by the CI developers otherwise it will be only one more CMS and we will end up once again with 1000 poor CMS instead of a very strong one.

I am sorry that my post isn't very organized but I just wanted to know your opinion on this...
1) Do you feel a CMS is important? For most of my clients is the most important thing therefore I am almost always forced to pick WordPress / PrestaShop
2) Do you feel it is possible to do one powerful CMS instead of many that won't be used?
3) Do you think a CMS based on CI could become a popular CMS among people that were using WP for example?
4) If you think it's a good idea what should be the next steps to start the design of this project?

I can contribute a lot in terms of UI/UX. I can also contribute in terms of programming and I can also bring some input of software engineers on this.

I can also contribute in trying to make this financial sustainable or at least a bit rewarding. I really think it's important to follow the path of WP and Presta for example on this. Otherwise the project will die in short/mid term for sure.
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#2
Ivo Miranda, Sounds good but, The problem I see is getting a few people (let alone an entire team) to agree on one way to implement something.

Either way I have mine "system" broken into 6 main parts with everything else installed as a package depending on the project.

Users, Groups, Access
Package Manager
Settings, Menu

Package Manager I think is self explanatory.

Users, Groups, Access library's provide API for packages to add/remove/modify these areas. This also provides basic login/logout
Settings provided a GUI / standardized library to add configure values either by packages or manually.
Menu provides a GUI / standardized library for packages to add menubar entries. Again either from automatically or manually.

Everything else I composer in as a "package" and install it with package manager.

Even the Backend Admin theme is a package which just works with the APIs exposed by those 6 "libraries"

I am sure others have a lot more ideas than mine but, like I said getting even 2 or 3 people in agreement is pretty tough.

DMyers
https://github.com/ProjectOrangeBox
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#3
1) Yes.
2) Yes.
3) Yes.
4) The biggest problem comes here. Such a project needs a visioneer. That would be an an extremely skilled person (beyond PHP and frameworks), that would agree to work for free for years. It is likely not going to happen.
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#4
yeah, i'm buiding website on CI4.
I't great !!
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#5
The idea of a CMS **built on** CI4 is a great one, even though CI4 isn't ready for prime time, but such a project is outside the scope of CI4 itself.

The CI team can encourage such a project, but is *not* in a position to support it.
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#6
Do we really need this?

People you use CI surely have all written their own libraries, helpers and controllers and all have there own CMS ready to use for the next client.
My CMS is lightweight, robust and I hope secure. I dont have to fear hackers as my code is not available, I dont have to worry about 3rd party issues as i only have what I (or my clients) need. No bloated add-ons that I never use.

I have a lot clients who's WP site gets hacked not because they have an old WP but have badly written 3rd party plugins. Things they tried, did not like but never uninstalled. Just waiting for a hacker to exploit any problems they found.

As already said before, getting people to agree on a CMS is not going to happen. Why should I / we wait for CMS when I already have it. I am not likely to even start testing a new system as I am so much faster with the system I already have used for many clients.

The CMS would need to be so flexible that a lot of people can use it making it bloated and full of things not everybody needs right from the start. I use CI just because it is NOT bloated and I decide what I need to add keeping it extremely light weight.


Sorry if I am putting a dumper on your idea, but this is just my personal opinion.
On the package it said needs Windows 7 or better. So I installed Linux.
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#7
(07-26-2016, 02:37 AM)Ivo Miranda Wrote: In my opinion a powerful CMS built on the same premises of CI4 could turn CI a major success. Imagine if I could say to my clients to use CI4 CMS instead of WP... Wow... That would be awesome... For the first time to put together a real framework and a CMS that can actually become popular.
I disagree. If it became a popular CMS, it (the CMS), not CI, would be a major success. The framework it was written on is fairly unimportant and can change at any time.

(07-26-2016, 02:37 AM)Ivo Miranda Wrote: All the others seem pretty unfinished or with websites that won't ever appeal users outside from CI that's for sure. Plus all the admins seem so old.. I have to be honest I didn't try any because I feel problems are coming.
Lots of people start creating a CMS but lose interest, or realize how hard it is to satisfy the almost inexhaustible list of demands from different users, or just never offer anything of any value better or different than in already established systems. It is also very hard to build up open source contributors to do the work as well, as you will soon see when you start a project. For one person this can seem like a great idea, but the work load and demands can become overwhelming as security reports come in, or bug notifications, or platform problems, or feature requests etc.

(07-26-2016, 02:37 AM)Ivo Miranda Wrote: Well my idea was to stop building thousands of "weak" CMS for CI and get the community together to build the most powerful CMS that could be used by CI and non CI people. Of course if you wanted to develop plugins / modules you had to do it in CI.
But not every user of CI is using it for a CMS. That is one use for the framework but certainly not the only use by a very long way. And decisions would need to be made (and certainly not agreed upon by all) about how plugins were authorized, integrated or managed. Different people want different things and there is no one right way to do any of them.

(07-26-2016, 02:37 AM)Ivo Miranda Wrote: This CMS could be done by community but I think it's really important to be supported by the CI developers otherwise it will be only one more CMS and we will end up once again with 1000 poor CMS instead of a very strong one.
No, the CI developers have committed their time freely to the development of CI because it is the development of this framework that interests them, not the development of a spin off piece of software like a CMS.

(07-26-2016, 02:37 AM)Ivo Miranda Wrote: I can also contribute in trying to make this financial sustainable or at least a bit rewarding. I really think it's important to follow the path of WP and Presta for example on this. Otherwise the project will die in short/mid term for sure.
Again, this is a decision not everyone will agree with. CI itself does not even accept donations, and if you are talking about raising funds in any way you suddenly need proper financial management and authorities and rules to decide who gets what and in what proportion, or where it is spent. Just in the act of selling a t-shirt can rip a community apart when it comes to divvying up the money and deciding where it should be spent. As soon as money is involved, the nature of the beast changes.

The CI framework can be used for a commercial or open source CMS. But it is a framework, not a CMS. I would guess that most of us got into CI exactly because we were fed up with existing CMS that no matter how powerful they were, did not do what we wanted it to do, or that no CMS allowed us to do with website content what we wanted. So like a previous poster, I have libraries now that I can move from site to site, so should I need an image manager, or an admin section, or a login sytem, I can easily port what I have to the next site. CI as a framework has allowed me to do this.

Any CMS built on CI, I would have to judge like every other CMS, what does it do, how does it do it, what advantages does it confer on me or the user, can it solve the issue I have at hand? The fact it was built on CI would be of very little consequence.

However, you should build one, and everyone will take a look, and some of us might use it, and some might even begin to contribute. However it is a very long and difficult road in reality with only very few in the bubbling broil of new systems floating to the top.

Good luck and best wishes,

Paul.
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#8
Thank you all for your comments. I am still waiting for more opinions so I can have at least a small sample with people that actually use CI for real projects, and with that sample I will do a list of PROs and CONs so I can evaluate better the idea.

Just to get some things straight:
1) I brought to the table the idea of the CMS being "advertised" by the devs if they agree on it... Like "this is the official CI CMS" or something similar. I didn't mean to say they would take their focus out of CI4 at all.
2) Since it is not made by devs it will obviously not be included in CI4. It would be completly optional for those that feel that they are making the wheel once again.
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#9
Hopefully, my original post didn't confuse anyone that I was implying the CodeIgniter team should provide this or support it in any way.
Nor do I feel any team that does focus on a project like this should use this forum for anything other than a "check out our new project" style post (like I did for my project a few months ago).
I would hate for CodeIgniter to enforce anything as elaborate as a CMS, Authorization System, Templating, ORM. etc... on me.
Like I said in my original post. I have my way of doing things and I am sure others have theirs.
I am currently using a system at work which enforces all kinds of coding philosophy's. Unfortunately we are running into all kinds of speed & memory issues because "that's the way it's done". We spend days writing code to go around this or that to try and speed it up not to mention the $$$$ we've spent to try to make up for code bloat.

The only thing official CodeIgniter should be CodeIgniter.

DMyers
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#10
(07-26-2016, 12:00 PM)dmyers Wrote: Hopefully, my original post didn't confuse anyone that I was implying the CodeIgniter team should provide this or support it in any way.
Nor do I feel any team that does focus on a project like this should use this forum for anything other than a "check out our new project" style post (like I did for my project a few months ago).
I would hate for CodeIgniter to enforce anything as elaborate as a CMS, Authorization System, Templating, ORM. etc... on me.
Like I said in my original post. I have my way of doing things and I am sure others have theirs.
I am currently using a system at work which enforces all kinds of coding philosophy's. Unfortunately we are running into all kinds of speed & memory issues because "that's the way it's done". We spend days writing code to go around this or that to try and speed it up not to mention the $$$$ we've spent to try to make up for code bloat.

The only thing official CodeIgniter should be CodeIgniter.

DMyers

No not your post. But some comments seemed to suggest that I was trying to give this responsability to CI team and that makes no sense at all. I am going to post some ideas that would hopefuly mitigate the CONs but I will only post it like tomorrow or so when I feel that there are no more opinions coming in.

Both positive and negative opinions are very useful because in the end people will decide to give it a try (or not) based on their feelings. Only after they try they will decide to stay based on their experience but that is already the second step Smile
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