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Some questions about CodeIgniter (not CI4)

#11
(06-19-2016, 03:55 PM)dwalisson Wrote: This should be converted into a fixed post. Fact.

"I would say que if you want to try other frameworks, you shouldnt! I think there's a good chance you might yourself back here using CI."  <<< Fact!

No, you SHOULD try other frameworks and other everything.
You should NOT tie yourself to a single tool.
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#12
I agree 100% with Narf.

1. Try pure php
2. Try other frameworks
3. Try to write your own framework
4. Learn SQL
5. Heck even another language if you have time.

Then make your own decision!

I know way to many PHP developers that choose one framework and that's it.
They don't know SQL
Heck, they barely even know PHP.

They just know enough to click "install" and "enable" and can cut & paste code like no one's business!
Much more than that and they are lost. Ask them what a left join is and they look at you like you are talking alien?
One guy showed me this library they thought was "exclusive" to there framework. I took one look and said "oh that's the composer package oodle/krumo" They had no clue that there "exclusive framework" simple wrapped up somebody else's code and I could install it VIA composer and use it in about 15 seconds.

I like to learn as much as I can about ALL PHP frameworks and such. I also like to then assimilate those ideas into my CodeIgniter code.

One other thing, a lot of those links you provided are a little dated.

DMyers
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#13
I hear here and there a lot of "CI is for simple projects" but I can't agree with that. CI is simple and way more flexible than other frameworks and that gives you the ability to create from simple blog websites to entire social networks. With CI you don't need to follow strict methods to do a job you want like in other frameworks. For me that freedom is the biggest advantage of CI comparative other frameworks.
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#14
CI for simple projects.... well sh!t I'm so doing it wrong....

I work on a site that manages MILLIONS of active users worldwide, runs tens of thousands of commerce transactions daily, is constantly under use. We've got db servers, content cache servers, cloud servers, processing services - all running CI. We're slowly moving all of the legacy code over to CI. We receive four times the hacking attempts than any other sites our hosting company manages (we're in a geeky consumer market) - paranoia and robust input checking keeps us secure.

We have custom CMS, custom shopping cart, admin systems (from accounting to report generation to predictive pricing models and order fulfillment systems) and a myriad of other things.

CI rocks. Yes, it (like anything else) has trade offs which cause us headaches. But we're developers, it is out job to resolve the headaches and move forward. It isn't like any tool is perfect, but CI does an excellent job.
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#15
Wow, that sounds like quite a set up and website you have there - congratulations. My best site is an e-commerce website built from scratch with CI that now takes just under £1,000,000 a year in sales. (Not my site unfortunately but I designed, built and manage it). It integrates with NetSuite (not an easy task) and other third party tracking and monitoring apps (much easier) and is the most complex (in terms of functionality) shop site I have seen. Very secure, performs very well and seems to cope with the large demands put on it without even blinking. Thank you CI.

However pales in comparison to your site Kaosweaver, but the point stands. CI is a framework that is so lightweight and fast that it works perfectly for a website for my local garage and for vast, multi national websites with millions of users. Of course the majority of sites built with CI are tiny little sites, first builds by newbies, simple online brochures, personal site etc. That is the nature of the web. Not every website can be a monster site.

Saying CI is for simple sites is like saying my hammer is only good for making small bits of furniture. No, it can be used to make anything you put your mind too, including the Titanic.
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#16
Kaosweaver and PaulD, are these written in MVC or are you suing the HMVC for modules?
I enjoy CI3, and recently did a project using Laravel 5 to get some education.
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#17
Man, some people are clueless.

All a framework is is prewritten code that helps with common tasks. The larger the framework, the more tasks it may help you with. The smaller the framework, the less tasks it will perform.

One of the 'problems' (I emphasize the quotes), is that CI allows crappy developers to write really terrible code because it doesn't hold your hand the entire way like other frameworks. If you're a good PHP developer, it shouldn't matter which framework you use, you just need to use the framework that fits you/your project the best. Regardless, you could build the largest site in the world running codeigniter as long as you know what you're doing.

Edit:
Just to clarify what I mean by crappy developers. I recently was asked to look at a a CI project that was running in a production system for a larger company. There were 0 comments/annotations, there were models that were echoing views, controllers that had sql in them, views that were initializing models. This is an example of a developer not knowing what he's doing and screwing up royally. He would have been terrible regardless of what framework he used, but since CI has been around forever there has been a lot more of these types of guys asking questions on stack overflow and other forums.
Codeigniter is simply one of the tools you need to learn to be a successful developer. Always add more tools to your coding arsenal!
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#18
I was on another site that really pushes CI3 with HMVC. From the senior developers here, do you think HMVC is a good practice? I can see the advantage of reusing code by simply coping one folder/module. albertleao, I agree with you, if there is, I have not see it, but maybe there should be a best practice area for new developers.
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#19
HMVC, in my opinion, and my humble opinion, is a dead end and a complete waste of time. (Unless you have some VERY good reasons to need it). Although not on the scale of millions of users, I have built extremely complex and maintainable user web apps without HMVC, but still modular and well segmented, with just pure CI.

albertleo is completely right, CI is a lightweight flexible powerful framework that does NOT tell you how to work. So if you want to work in a bad way, you can. I think if you appreciate and use the power of libraries and models, you simply do not need HMVC, an overrated and sometimes ignorantly praised methodology that to me, is completely unnecessary.

But as always, and in everything but including PHP, everyone has an opinion and no-one can be said to be right (usually). I used HMVC once, never used it again, never needed it again, never thought about it again.

If it works for you, great, I am happy for you. For me, it is surplus to requirements.

@albertleo, I made a living for quite a long time rebuilding terrible websites built by children/newbies that were shocking to see. However, I reckon they were newbies to freelancing (and possibly coding) that were out to churn out solutions, rather than seeing each customer as a long life source of income, that if I could produce a fantastic solution, their business grew and they would always come back to me for development. I have competitors in my town that churn out crap, six months later, they ring me and I do the job properly. Building successful websites has as much to do with understanding a business and how they work and their market, as much as it has to do with CSS, PHP and JS. But without those 'churners' my business would be a nightmare. In fact I turn down people that have not already experienced the 'churn' because as customers they are less grateful and less appreciative of the hard work it takes to get it right. So I say thank you to the crappy developers and churn companies pumping out templated and turn key crappy solutions. They make the bread and butter I have lived on for 15 years!
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#20
(12-22-2016, 03:11 PM)PaulD Wrote: HMVC, in my opinion, and my humble opinion, is a dead end and a complete waste of time. (Unless you have some VERY good reasons to need it). Although not on the scale of millions of users, I have built extremely complex and maintainable user web apps without HMVC, but still modular and well segmented, with just pure CI.

albertleo is completely right, CI is a lightweight flexible powerful framework that does NOT tell you how to work. So if you want to work in a bad way, you can. I think if you appreciate and use the power of libraries and models, you simply do not need HMVC, an overrated and sometimes ignorantly praised methodology that to me, is completely unnecessary.

But as always, and in everything but including PHP, everyone has an opinion and no-one can be said to be right (usually). I used HMVC once, never used it again, never needed it again, never thought about it again.

If it works for you, great, I am happy for you. For me, it is surplus to requirements.

@albertleo, I made a living for quite a long time rebuilding terrible websites built by children/newbies that were shocking to see. However, I reckon they were newbies to freelancing (and possibly coding) that were out to churn out solutions, rather than seeing each customer as a long life source of income, that if I could produce a fantastic solution, their business grew and they would always come back to me for development. I have competitors in my town that churn out crap, six months later, they ring me and I do the job properly. Building successful websites has as much to do with understanding a business and how they work and their market, as much as it has to do with CSS, PHP and JS. But without those 'churners' my business would be a nightmare. In fact I turn down people that have not already experienced the 'churn' because as customers they are less grateful and less appreciative of the hard work it takes to get it right. So I say thank you to the crappy developers and churn companies pumping out templated and turn key crappy solutions. They make the bread and butter I have lived on for 15 years!

Thanks PaulD , I appreciate your response.
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