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Some questions about CodeIgniter (not CI4)

#1
Question 
Hello,

I lot a friends says me: 

Itsn't secure, beacause: "XSS is filter only at the entrance and not output. Filter the entire input HTML in the database that is chaotic and it does not allow any alternative filtering." I think CI3 is a "Safe disaster.".

He continued "The community dies, because the community to quickly migrate to Laravel, Symfony, Yii, CakePHP, because with a little good will and even by not complying with the standards, we arrive at a similar result with almost three CI times less restriction and faster".


He share me some articles:
  • https://www.sitepoint.com/community/t/i-chose-codeigniter-for-my-web-app-startup-was-it-the-wrong-choice/113413
  • http://mulzer.tumblr.com/post/24141993116/12-reasons-you-should-switch-from-codeigniter-to
  • https://philsturgeon.uk/codeigniter/2012/12/05/5-things-codeigniter-cannot-do-without-a-rewrite/
  • https://thecelavi.wordpress.com/2014/01/21/stay-away-from-codeigniter/
He sais "He said that no standard does codeigniter respect." & "CodeIgniter does not contain any class naming convention.".

He ends by saying "Using codeigniter can not qualify PHP developer with the ability to object".

Why ? I don't know.

I have somequestions so:

  1. Why not make codeigniter respects the standards?
  2. Why codeigniter is frowned upon by many?
  3. Is the other who is wrong, or do we question ourselves.
  4. Is that with CodeIgniter 4, we will finally be able to take the place we deserve? Or is what we as users codeigniter, we will continue to be denigrated.
  5. My impression, reading other than codeigniter is breathless. It gets to the end. Should we migrate framework?
Sorry, I'm French, i using Google Translate.

Just, if you can answer me ... :/

Thanks, Dylan.
[Image: 1451946405-enjoyfiles-en.png]
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#2
I moved this thread to this forum, as the questions you ask, and points your associates raise, are mostly about past practices, and not directly relevant to the CodeIgniter 4 forum. The questions that are relevant to CI4 are most likely answered in http://forum.codeigniter.com/thread-63987.html, while your other questions (XSS, community, migration, etc) reflect individual decisions.
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#3
Next time -- just ask them at what future version will their "modern" framework perform as fast as codeigniter?
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#4
and if then they say there is no community or interest? Codeigniter Trending at Number 5 on Github

https://github.com/trending?l=php&since=monthly
Reply

#5
(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote:
  1. Why not make codeigniter respects the standards?
  2. Why codeigniter is frowned upon by many?
  3. Is the other who is wrong, or do we question ourselves.
  4. Is that with CodeIgniter 4, we will finally be able to take the place we deserve? Or is what we as users codeigniter, we will continue to be denigrated.
  5. My impression, reading other than codeigniter is breathless. It gets to the end. Should we migrate framework?

I have been using CI since version 1.7.X (2009), and over time I've had my own complaints about CI, and some seemed legitimate. I too, at times, have desired different types of autoloading, namespacing, etc. I checked out other frameworks, and even starting writing my own. In the end though, I always end up coming back to CI. The reason why is that I don't even need to look at the docs anymore (for the most part). When I work, I just make stuff happen, and it's easy. So, if you want a easy framework and getting stuff done quickly is a priority, then there's not much to complain about.

On the other hand, there are some pretty cool things you can do with PSR-4 type autoloading, DI containers, etc. I'm coming from a point of view where I'm working for a living, and these things just don't matter to me. At the end of the day, I'm still going to make my hourly wage, and so why make things harder for myself?

So, to answer your questions:

1) Who's standards? Some other framework's standards? Some group of developers who decided they were going to set "the standard"? I've never subscribed to be a follower of others, and I don't agree with some of the "standards" that other devs have decided are the right way to do things. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, until my boss is telling my I have to abide by standard X, Y, or Z, I'm going to do things my way.

2) CI is frowned on by many because they want a non-backward compatible framework that uses features from newer versions of PHP. Also, there may be issues with unit testing in CI, although I don't do unit testing so I can't tell you. I don't even think I can tell you how many hundreds of times I have heard people complain about CI's backwards compatibility, as if it was a limitation of the framework. I personally don't need the backwards compatibility, but I for one am sick of hearing people complain about CI. Go somewhere else and find yourself in the pit of despair should you have a question that nobody wants to answer or can't answer. CI's always had a decent community, and unless the forum questions are hard to understand, you'll usually find that you get good support here. CI is a very mature framework, so there's not a lot of kinks to work out, and that means stability. Tell me how many different version of Laravel have came out in the last 3 or so years.

3) If you're questioning yourself about your use of CI, it's probably because you don't have enough experience with CI and the other frameworks to know the difference. I DO think you should try other frameworks, because you may find that another is better for you, and then you wouldn't be here asking about them.

4) CI4 is going to be developed for PHP7, so I think that should make everyone happy. There's always changes happening in the world of PHP, so I suspect that by the time CI4 is ready for production, there will be a new "standard" by some hipster devs, and they will just bash CI again. If you enjoy being in line with the trendy devs, you're going to want to read all of the dev blogs. Don't worry, they will tell you what to do.

5) I have a lot of time invested in CI, and one of the deficiencies that I felt CI has is no auth, but I developed an authentication system that works for me. I don't see myself going out (again) and trying a new framework anytime soon. Even the thought of migrating to CI4 makes me a little anxious, because I am so comfortable where I'm at. A couple of the things I like the most about CI aren't available anywhere else, like the database query builder. Although I did some work to isolate it: https://bitbucket.org/skunkbad/breakout-db . I also really like the routing, as I find no advantage to adding a new route to a routes file every time I need one. I am very comfortable with CI's form validation, sessions usage, and all of the helper functions.

I would say that if you want to try other frameworks, you should! I think there's a good chance you might yourself back here using CI.
Reply

#6
(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote: Hello,

I lot a friends says me: 

Itsn't secure, beacause: "XSS is filter only at the entrance and not output. Filter the entire input HTML in the database that is chaotic and it does not allow any alternative filtering." I think CI3 is a "Safe disaster.".

CI itself advises you to do XSS filtering on output instead of input ...

(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote: He continued "The community dies, because the community to quickly migrate to Laravel, Symfony, Yii, CakePHP, because with a little good will and even by not complying with the standards, we arrive at a similar result with almost three CI times less restriction and faster".

I don't even understand what that means ... All I get is focus on popularity and unknown "standards".

(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote: He share me some articles:
  • https://www.sitepoint.com/community/t/i-chose-codeigniter-for-my-web-app-startup-was-it-the-wrong-choice/113413
  • http://mulzer.tumblr.com/post/24141993116/12-reasons-you-should-switch-from-codeigniter-to
  • https://philsturgeon.uk/codeigniter/2012/12/05/5-things-codeigniter-cannot-do-without-a-rewrite/
  • https://thecelavi.wordpress.com/2014/01/21/stay-away-from-codeigniter/

The first link is filled with random people's comments.
The second is obviously written with the single goal of advertising Laravel (and contains many false statements too).
The third is fair criticism from a former CodeIgniter developer, but addressing such concerns is why CI4 is a rewrite. It's an article about the future evolution of CI, not one that should take as "don't use CI".
And the last one is ... a Symfony fanboy saying that CI isn't Symfony and therefore is evil - pure bigotry.

(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote: He sais "He said that no standard does codeigniter respect."

Again, a standard for what?

(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote: "CodeIgniter does not contain any class naming convention.".

That's just a lie.

(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote: He ends by saying "Using codeigniter can not qualify PHP developer with the ability to object".

Why ? I don't know.

That's a good question, because that quote is completely meaningless.

(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote: I have somequestions so:

  1. Why not make codeigniter respects the standards?
  2. Why codeigniter is frowned upon by many?
  3. Is the other who is wrong, or do we question ourselves.
  4. Is that with CodeIgniter 4, we will finally be able to take the place we deserve? Or is what we as users codeigniter, we will continue to be denigrated.
  5. My impression, reading other than codeigniter is breathless. It gets to the end. Should we migrate framework?
Sorry, I'm French, i using Google Translate.

Just, if you can answer me ... :/

Thanks, Dylan.

Every other framework tries to be everything for everybody, so a lot of people expect the same from CI. Only, it's a simple framework, for simple projects.

CodeIgniter has its problems, but every framework has its flaws. People just love to hate and you happened to meet one that hates CI.

I believe I've answered the rest of your questions above.
Reply

#7
I especially enjoyed the last link, where the guy was complaining because he actually had to write SQL queries. Yes, if you're going to work in web development, you need to learn SQL. The sooner, the better. I spent too many years fighting SQL and things like Query Builder for complex queries. Once I gave in and started learning SQL better, it's all so much simpler now.
Practical CodeIgniter 3  • CodeIgniter 4 Foundations - Coming Soon • Vulcan - CLI Tools for CI4
Reply

#8
Code:
Benchmarking www.censored.link (be patient)
Completed 100 requests
Completed 200 requests
Completed 300 requests
Completed 400 requests
Completed 500 requests
Completed 600 requests
Completed 700 requests
Completed 800 requests
Completed 900 requests
Completed 1000 requests
Finished 1000 requests


Server Software:        cloudflare-nginx
Server Hostname:        www.censored.link
Server Port:            80

Document Path:          /
Document Length:        13639 bytes

Concurrency Level:      100
Time taken for tests:   3.333 seconds
Complete requests:      1000
Failed requests:        0
Total transferred:      14435000 bytes
HTML transferred:       13639000 bytes
Requests per second:    300.02 [#/sec] (mean)
Time per request:       333.310 [ms] (mean)
Time per request:       3.333 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
Transfer rate:          4229.30 [Kbytes/sec] received

Connection Times (ms)
             min  mean[+/-sd] median   max
Connect:        2    4  44.7      2    1001
Processing:   228  299  59.8    282     592
Waiting:      223  296  58.3    280     591
Total:        230  304  74.0    284    1295

Percentage of the requests served within a certain time (ms)
 50%    284
 66%    291
 75%    297
 80%    300
 90%    329
 95%    470
 98%    554
 99%    572
100%   1295 (longest request)

I only say LOL. This is benchmark for a project with 700k rows in database (queryed for listing on current benchmark with some filters + faceting).
SphinxSearch, Memcached, Smarty3 and of course: CodeIgniter.
I spend 1 week with benchmarks and tests to pick a production framework so please, point me a framework that can manage better  Big Grin
Reply

#9
(01-05-2016, 05:48 AM)Narf Wrote:
(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote: Hello,

I lot a friends says me: 

Itsn't secure, beacause: "XSS is filter only at the entrance and not output. Filter the entire input HTML in the database that is chaotic and it does not allow any alternative filtering." I think CI3 is a "Safe disaster.".

CI itself advises you to do XSS filtering on output instead of input ...

(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote: He continued "The community dies, because the community to quickly migrate to Laravel, Symfony, Yii, CakePHP, because with a little good will and even by not complying with the standards, we arrive at a similar result with almost three CI times less restriction and faster".

I don't even understand what that means ... All I get is focus on popularity and unknown "standards".

(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote: He share me some articles:
  • https://www.sitepoint.com/community/t/i-chose-codeigniter-for-my-web-app-startup-was-it-the-wrong-choice/113413
  • http://mulzer.tumblr.com/post/24141993116/12-reasons-you-should-switch-from-codeigniter-to
  • https://philsturgeon.uk/codeigniter/2012/12/05/5-things-codeigniter-cannot-do-without-a-rewrite/
  • https://thecelavi.wordpress.com/2014/01/21/stay-away-from-codeigniter/

The first link is filled with random people's comments.
The second is obviously written with the single goal of advertising Laravel (and contains many false statements too).
The third is fair criticism from a former CodeIgniter developer, but addressing such concerns is why CI4 is a rewrite. It's an article about the future evolution of CI, not one that should take as "don't use CI".
And the last one is ... a Symfony fanboy saying that CI isn't Symfony and therefore is evil - pure bigotry.

(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote: He sais "He said that no standard does codeigniter respect."

Again, a standard for what?

(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote: "CodeIgniter does not contain any class naming convention.".

That's just a lie.

(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote: He ends by saying "Using codeigniter can not qualify PHP developer with the ability to object".

Why ? I don't know.

That's a good question, because that quote is completely meaningless.

(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote: I have somequestions so:

  1. Why not make codeigniter respects the standards?
  2. Why codeigniter is frowned upon by many?
  3. Is the other who is wrong, or do we question ourselves.
  4. Is that with CodeIgniter 4, we will finally be able to take the place we deserve? Or is what we as users codeigniter, we will continue to be denigrated.
  5. My impression, reading other than codeigniter is breathless. It gets to the end. Should we migrate framework?
Sorry, I'm French, i using Google Translate.

Just, if you can answer me ... :/

Thanks, Dylan.

Every other framework tries to be everything for everybody, so a lot of people expect the same from CI. Only, it's a simple framework, for simple projects.

CodeIgniter has its problems, but every framework has its flaws. People just love to hate and you happened to meet one  that hates CI.

I believe I've answered the rest of your questions above.

Bravo ... millenials are obsesed with Laravel, Symfony, Composer and shit that do the work for them... that f*ckers are not even developers, are content managers...
Reply

#10
(01-04-2016, 09:33 PM)skunkbad Wrote:
(01-04-2016, 04:08 PM)Aendawan Wrote:
  1. Why not make codeigniter respects the standards?
  2. Why codeigniter is frowned upon by many?
  3. Is the other who is wrong, or do we question ourselves.
  4. Is that with CodeIgniter 4, we will finally be able to take the place we deserve? Or is what we as users codeigniter, we will continue to be denigrated.
  5. My impression, reading other than codeigniter is breathless. It gets to the end. Should we migrate framework?

I have been using CI since version 1.7.X (2009), and over time I've had my own complaints about CI, and some seemed legitimate. I too, at times, have desired different types of autoloading, namespacing, etc. I checked out other frameworks, and even starting writing my own. In the end though, I always end up coming back to CI. The reason why is that I don't even need to look at the docs anymore (for the most part). When I work, I just make stuff happen, and it's easy. So, if you want a easy framework and getting stuff done quickly is a priority, then there's not much to complain about.

On the other hand, there are some pretty cool things you can do with PSR-4 type autoloading, DI containers, etc. I'm coming from a point of view where I'm working for a living, and these things just don't matter to me. At the end of the day, I'm still going to make my hourly wage, and so why make things harder for myself?

So, to answer your questions:

1) Who's standards? Some other framework's standards? Some group of developers who decided they were going to set "the standard"? I've never subscribed to be a follower of others, and I don't agree with some of the "standards" that other devs have decided are the right way to do things. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, until my boss is telling my I have to abide by standard X, Y, or Z, I'm going to do things my way.

2) CI is frowned on by many because they want a non-backward compatible framework that uses features from newer versions of PHP. Also, there may be issues with unit testing in CI, although I don't do unit testing so I can't tell you. I don't even think I can tell you how many hundreds of times I have heard people complain about CI's backwards compatibility, as if it was a limitation of the framework. I personally don't need the backwards compatibility, but I for one am sick of hearing people complain about CI. Go somewhere else and find yourself in the pit of despair should you have a question that nobody wants to answer or can't answer. CI's always had a decent community, and unless the forum questions are hard to understand, you'll usually find that you get good support here. CI is a very mature framework, so there's not a lot of kinks to work out, and that means stability. Tell me how many different version of Laravel have came out in the last 3 or so years.

3) If you're questioning yourself about your use of CI, it's probably because you don't have enough experience with CI and the other frameworks to know the difference. I DO think you should try other frameworks, because you may find that another is better for you, and then you wouldn't be here asking about them.

4) CI4 is going to be developed for PHP7, so I think that should make everyone happy. There's always changes happening in the world of PHP, so I suspect that by the time CI4 is ready for production, there will be a new "standard" by some hipster devs, and they will just bash CI again. If you enjoy being in line with the trendy devs, you're going to want to read all of the dev blogs. Don't worry, they will tell you what to do.

5) I have a lot of time invested in CI, and one of the deficiencies that I felt CI has is no auth, but I developed an authentication system that works for me. I don't see myself going out (again) and trying a new framework anytime soon. Even the thought of migrating to CI4 makes me a little anxious, because I am so comfortable where I'm at. A couple of the things I like the most about CI aren't available anywhere else, like the database query builder. Although I did some work to isolate it: https://bitbucket.org/skunkbad/breakout-db . I also really like the routing, as I find no advantage to adding a new route to a routes file every time I need one. I am very comfortable with CI's form validation, sessions usage, and all of the helper functions.

I would say that if you want to try other frameworks, you should! I think there's a good chance you might yourself back here using CI.

This should be converted into a fixed post. Fact.

"I would say que if you want to try other frameworks, you shouldnt! I think there's a good chance you might yourself back here using CI."  <<< Fact!
-----------------
Diego Walisson
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