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When to wait for CI4 - officially

#1
Hello, about 35 projects were implemented by us on CI, the speed of work and flexibility of a framework very much is pleasant. Now we project the big project and there is a wish to implement it on CI4. Orient us on the term of an official release of the version of CI4? at least approximately, thanks.
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#2
I wouldn't expect a beta until spring. So - don't implement a production site on it yet.
Practical CodeIgniter 3  • CodeIgniter 4 Foundations - Coming Soon • Vulcan - CLI Tools for CI4
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#3
(11-23-2016, 08:05 AM)kilishan Wrote: I wouldn't expect a beta until spring. So - don't implement a production site on it yet.

Assuming that nothing huge and unpredicted happens what is your best guess for a "no sooner than" time table?

Alpha - No sooner than ...
Beta - No sooner than sping 2017
RC - No sooner than ...
Release - No sooner than ...
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#4
No sooner than when it's ready. Wink

Seriously, if that info hasn't been publicly announcet yet, you asking for it is either futile or asking for a lie.
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#5
It sounds like you & a lot of the community are looking for promised, guaranteed, absolutely reliable delivery dates for production CI4. I can proudly announce the following guarantees, and I will publically eat a baseball cap if we do not meet them.

Alpha - No later than ... 2018
Beta - No later than ... 2019
RC - No later than ... 2020
Release - No later than ... 2021

Seriously, what you ask is impossible. This is a community developed framework, not a corporate enterprise with a reasonable sized full-time team. If you look at the contributors on github, the list is pretty short, with a handful able to contribute significantly. We all have day jobs, and lives outside of that and CI. The way to move forward the release dates is to get more involved in the development Smile

The problem with "ballpark figures" or best guesses, is that readers overlook the word "guess" and mentally substitute the word "promise". I think Lonnie is bang on with his suggestion that Spring 2017 is what we are working to, but that target may or not be reasonable.

CodeIgniter 4 is not production ready. We encourage the community to play with it, report problems, make suggestions, and contribute the small or big bits that they can. There are a number of "issues" on github that are tagged as "help wanted", i.e. opportunities to kick in. As more features get sorted out, they will be added as new issues, to give the community an opportunity to work on them!

If you have a big project, I suggest sticking with CodeIgniter 3 for it.
If you have a small project, it might be an idea to try to build it using CodeIgniter 4, and let us know what works and what doesn't, or even better, to fix/add the pieces that are broken/missing Smile
James Parry
Project Lead
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#6
I think, The Captain Jack need more researches (or do a lot research) to make version 4 different or special from other.
Sorry for my English...
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#7
Publicly it is a good position not to have a release date for CI 4 and I'm sure that most long time codeigniter users understand this and know the situation. But I sincerely hope that *privately* among the council and core developers - that you do have some strong goals that you are working towards.

It would be extremely helpful for all of us who try to answer peoples questions on this bulletin board and other places - to have a public page that is linked from the home page that outlines - if not a schedule - then at least a series of steps of what is and will happen to go live with codeigniter 4. Then when people ask this question we can just give them the link.

Ok now i'm going to be a little more blunt:
You have a public alpha of CI 4 on github with over 500 stars! So of course people are going to ask when its going to be ready. Come on, what do you expect? Be real. Responding to these people, like this OP who obviously is heavily invested into Codeigniter success, with sarcasm or flip answers does not help anyone. People are going to keep asking this question on this board every week. There is a link on the CI 4 github page - thats an announcement from over a year ago. There are some scraps of information buried in bulletin board threads. My suggestion would be a page or locked forum thread that is boldy linked from the github page and the codeigniter home page.

Besides being able to clearly answer a question that will come up all the time - you will get more people helping if they can see a clear and positive plan for finishing and CI 4 being released.
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#8
(11-23-2016, 02:14 PM)cartalot Wrote: Publicly it is a good position not to have a release date for CI 4 and I'm sure that most long time codeigniter users understand this and know the situation. But I sincerely hope that *privately* among the council and core developers - that you do have some strong goals that you are working towards.

There's a huge difference between what we chat internally, what we can commit to and then what we can promise. It's not about publicity - I for one hate this kind of politics - it's about not giving false promises.

(11-23-2016, 02:14 PM)cartalot Wrote: It would be extremely helpful for all of us who try to answer peoples questions on this bulletin board and other places - to have a public page that is linked from the home page that outlines - if not a schedule - then at least a series of steps of what is and will happen to go live with codeigniter 4. Then when people ask this question we can just give them the link.

Problem with that is the same - looking for concrete answers when there aren't such, even if we think that we have them ... The answer to "what's left for CI3 to be complete?" changed at least 5 times.

(11-23-2016, 02:14 PM)cartalot Wrote: Ok now i'm going to be a little more blunt:
You have a public alpha of CI 4 on github with over 500 stars! So of course people are going to ask when its going to be ready. Come on, what do you expect? Be real. Responding to these people, like this OP who obviously is heavily invested into Codeigniter success, with sarcasm or flip answers does not help anyone. People are going to keep asking this question on this board every week. There is a link on the CI 4 github page - thats an announcement from over a year ago. There are some scraps of information buried in bulletin board threads. My suggestion would be a page or locked forum thread that is boldy linked from the github page and the codeigniter home page.

Besides being able to clearly answer a question that will come up all the time -  you will get more people helping if they can see a clear and positive plan for finishing and CI 4 being released.

Yes, we know people are going to ask.
They would still ask regularly if we pin a thread with a made-up deadline.
Even if we turn all of the GitHub repo, the forum board and the website into huge, bold, red, all-capital notices that we can't give a deadline - they will find our emails and will try to ask us personally. If someone could dig up my phone number, I'm 100% sure I'd get a call too.
A few uniquely lazy ones will ask even after the release.

But something else is notable about that last quote of yours ... You suggest that we link something, and talk about how it would help, yet you don't say what that something is.
An official deadline? Come on, be real. Wink
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#9
(11-23-2016, 06:01 PM)Narf Wrote: But something else is notable about that last quote of yours ... You suggest that we link something, and talk about how it would help, yet you don't say what that something is.

" to have a public page that is linked from the home page that outlines - if not a schedule - then at least a series of steps of what is and will happen to go live with codeigniter 4. Then when people ask this question we can just give them the link."

(11-23-2016, 06:01 PM)Narf Wrote: An official deadline? Come on, be real.

"Publicly it is a good position not to have a release date for CI 4"
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#10
I was not trying to be "flip" - I was pointing out the absurdity of coming up with promised dates for a release Undecided

We *do* have a roadmap for what needs to go into CI4 for the next pre-alpha ... http://forum.codeigniter.com/thread-65543.html. Excerpting from it, and adding my own opinion in brackets after each ...

We are now embarking on phase two:

- helpers (50%? see #213, #206, lots more not spec'd)  
- Language/Localization (not started, see #141)
- Caching (done?)
- Email (in progress, see #276)
- Encryption (unclear)
- Form Validation (in progress)
- Image Library (in progress see #114)
- Pagination (unclear)
- Uploader (unclear)
- Sessions (memcached & redis adapters) (in progress)
- Database adapters for other RDBs (in progress, only MySQL done, Postgres stalled)

Some of these have been completed, some are well under way, and yet others are still "issues" in the CI4 repo.
Some of the above have yet to be added to the pre-alpha 2 issues, but we are working on that.
We need all of these, and perhaps more, substantially done or at least spec'd, to complete "pre-alpha2".

There are likely to be additional community contributions or feature requests that could skew the above, but it is "the roadmap" as it sits.


Once the pre-alpha is "released", we need to freeze the feature set for the first alpha and then beta of the emerging framework, and that, to me, is the time at which it starts to become reasonable to talk about a timeframe for a beta target date.
James Parry
Project Lead
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