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Native PHP installers

#1
Hi,

I just wanted to ask this question again, but what do people think about native PHP installers - as I'm thinking of doing away with my installer, (it doesn't really work as it is not native PHP). Is it useful or more of a security risk. Would you rather just load the database yourself and type in these setting in the config files ( like config.php and database.php.)
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#2
(02-04-2017, 07:24 AM)iamthwee Wrote: Hi,

I just wanted to ask this question again, but what do people think about native PHP installers - as I'm thinking of doing away with my installer, (it doesn't really work as it is not native PHP). Is it useful or more of a security risk. Would you rather just load the database yourself and type in these setting in the config files ( like config.php and database.php.)

What do you mean? Like using an installer for a CMS or something like that?
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#3
(02-04-2017, 01:29 PM)Ivo Miranda Wrote:
(02-04-2017, 07:24 AM)iamthwee Wrote: Hi,

I just wanted to ask this question again, but what do people think about native PHP installers - as I'm thinking of doing away with my installer, (it doesn't really work as it is not native PHP). Is it useful or more of a security risk. Would you rather just load the database yourself and type in these setting in the config files ( like config.php and database.php.)

What do you mean? Like using an installer for a CMS or something like that?

Yeah like a wordpress thing? So the end user has very little manual config steps. What do you think.
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#4
I think it's very important to have an installer because of the following reasons:
1) It will give the feeling the CMS is a robust product
2) It is very important for beginners and for people that are just trying out the CMS to have a quick way to do it for the first time without having to learning anything
3) Why would it be a security issue? Are you going to leave the "dangerous" files there after the install?
4) The manual way will always be safe and probably faster for the users that use the CMS a lot of times. For example, nowadays I never use the automatic installer in WordPress just because it is not useful in our workflow.

By the way... is CI community together in building a CMS? Or each developer is building their own?
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#5
I think the only good solutions are an installer that does everything or no installer at all.

If you are going to do an installer, I should be able to log in directly after installation and everything should be up and running.

The alternative is to do nothing, and tell people to update config files themselves, but I am presuming that part of your target audience is non-technically minded (unlike CI target audience), so this would not be a good idea.

As for security, I would suggest a php installer that perhaps uninstalls itself once it has been run, and does not run if an install has already been run (in case it is not deleted). Or an alert appearing on the admin homepage saying 'install folder not yet deleted is a security risk' with a 'delete installer' button to unset the installation files.
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#6
Yeah good points, I tried before to get my installer working within codeigniter and it seemed to work, but after further inspection it isn't as robust.

So I'm going for a native PHP installer now.

Quote:By the way... is CI community together in building a CMS? Or each developer is building their own?

Haha good point. I guess everyone is writing their own, but mine is literally a proverbial mile above the rest in terms of functionality and UX design. After a bit of tidying up of course.
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#7
Oh I slightly misunderstood your question.

Of course a native PHP installer. Not sure how you would even do it with CI, as CI itself would have to be configured and set up.

(02-04-2017, 04:05 PM)iamthwee Wrote: but mine is literally a proverbial mile above the rest in terms of functionality and UX design.

LOL. Love the confidence.

The problem with a CMS is that it is very much like a cup of tea. Hardly anyone agrees what makes the perfect cup of tea. Some like it milky, some with sugar, some black, some weak, some even like it with peppermint!

But of course, my cups of tea are a mile above the rest in terms of purity and TB (TeaBag) design  Tongue
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#8
Haha yes a lot of confidence eheh Big Grin

Yes it is complicated to agree what to put in a CMS but the same problem applies to a framework.

The popularity of WordPress and even of all other CMS compared to frameworks proves that most of the interest lies on CMS.

I can't wait for the day when we can have a very solid CMS based on a very solid framework : )
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#9
I know what you mean. There is clearly a much larger population of non-technical users/publishers/content developers/domain owners than there are web developers. So yes, a CMS audience is much larger than a frameworks audience.

Personally, I started out using a CMS that let me start learning PHP (it was called Etomite but it died. The biggest fork, ModX is awful now IMHO). But I would never use a CMS now. Perhaps that says more about the types of sites I build than the nature of CMSs.

I think it is an interesting idea to build a CMS to promote the framework though, like ellis lab did originally. (Or perhaps they built the framework to support their CMS - not sure.)
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#10
I barely use CI in real projects because usually we need a management area and wordpress is very popular and it is very good for most of websites that my company manages to sell. Stuff like SEO, image upload and manipulation and so on is very easy almost out of the box.

I think that prestashop is the only CMS that is trying to change to symfony:
http://build.prestashop.com/news/prestas...d-symfony/
I am very curious if this is going to turn out in an improvement or if it will become a huge mess. It is also very curious that they decided to do this transition smoothly instead of going for a major version like presta 2.0 or something...
For what I read in their post CI wasn't even considered... but they are french so the choice of framework would be obviously symfony : P

Also a very interesting data:
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?da...d&hl=en-US
CodeIgniter is in number 2 in google trends : ) but Laravel has almost double of it's popularity :'(

And another interesting data
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?da...s&hl=en-US
WP has a huge popularity compared to Laravel and let's see if the Laravel buzz will keep going..
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