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off topic please help me :( - El Forum - 08-19-2011
[eluser]phpProgrammerToBe[/eluser]
good day.. may i have some words of wisdom coming from successful developers out there. i have problem on my programming practice. i have the logic and understanding of the web development concepts. and also i can say that i have adept skills on it.
may i ask on the experts here :
-what are the things that i have to consider on programming.
-good programming practice
-what are good programming tools
-operating system(windows or linux?); ?
thanks every one....
off topic please help me :( - El Forum - 08-19-2011
[eluser]jblack199[/eluser]
Well programming definitely isn't just something you jump into.... Lets hope you have knowledge of HTML and CSS (and i am not talking about tables)... if you have that then PHP/MySQL is the logical next step.
- things to consider -
This is a tough question really. Programming has a lot of things to consider. from the languages you want to learn, to the depth of knowledge you want, and of course your abilities in other areas.. Take my story for example.. I've been programming since 1989, doing web development since 1995. being a custom programmer I hate CMS's (joomla, etc and the garbage known as wordpress).. so I have a hard time trying to find a job because i hate CMS's and REFUSE to work with them.
- good programming practice -
Well if you mean 'code practice', try building website with administration backend from the ground up with zero pre-written code. If you mean coding practices and methodologies, well then you are in the right place... CI uses OOP (Object Oriented Programming) and so that is a great thing to know.
- tools of the trade -
most developers these days know the basics at least of either photoshop or illustrator. I cant tell you how often I get a design from a so called 'designer' that I have to fix. From there actual software can vary and everyone has a different opinion on that subject. I've used Dreamweaver since Macromedia still owned it and own DW CS5 -- but I like aptana studio 3 most definately.
- operating system -
for programming it doesn't really matter. A lot of people run wamp or xaamp servers on their windows machine for localhost or whatever but their live servers are a *nix box.. I personally program on a windows machine, but all my files are stored on a remote server that I connected a network drive to which is a linux box.
off topic please help me :( - El Forum - 08-19-2011
[eluser]phpProgrammerToBe[/eluser]
thanks jblack199 for your reply.
im an information technology student.. im exposed to different programming languages, C,Visual Basic,Python,and different web technologies(little bit of html,css,javascript and of course PHP). and i think web development is for me. my another problem is im not that good at OOP..
can you guys recommend a site or book in which i can learn OOP in php?
off topic please help me :( - El Forum - 08-19-2011
[eluser]phpProgrammerToBe[/eluser]
another question..
-what do i need to learn before i became a great web developer asides from(css,html,javascript and php)
-when i can call myself WEB DEVELOPER
thanks
off topic please help me :( - El Forum - 08-19-2011
[eluser]LuckyFella73[/eluser]
A good starting point is the PHP manual:
http://php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.php
There are tons of PHP tutorials around the web ask Mr google to help you
After you feel save with the oop basics you could go further and read about
PHP design patterns.
off topic please help me :( - El Forum - 08-19-2011
[eluser]jblack199[/eluser]
well to become a 'great' web developer that is all in each persons opinion. Most programmers that do web development these days deal with css, html javascript, php, mysql.. and expanding javascript they know-utilize-and understand: jQuery, jQuery ui, JSON, AJAX, DOM... and of course the PHP OOP methodologies...
I first started learning PHP off a book that I don't think sells anymore nor do I have it anymore... However there is a book I have now called PHP 5 Fast & Easy Web development that can help you start out.... in terms of javascript/ajax you can get another book called Ajax, Javascript and PHP by Phil Ballard and Michael Moncur.. it's part of the Sams Teach Yourself collection -- it is how I started learning the AJAX myself using the prototype.js and now I'm on to furthering my knowledge in jQuery by trying to figure out how to do things with it some people say is 'impossible'...
but LuckyFella is right, google has great information and tutorials... phpfreaks.com is a great place for basic tutorials and asking for help in code that isn't CI based as I wouldnt recommend trying to learn the CI way of things, before you know how to do the same types of things using regular PHP or regular OOP php....
Of course as you can see, whether it deals with CI or not we here (im still new to the forums @ 13 days of using CI) we are willing to help out if we can.
To answer the question of when you can call yourself a web developer, which is a term overly used these days as people who pickup some basic html using tables calls themselves a web developer so its more of a generic term in my eyes. But to call yourself a web developer, would take being able to a: build a dynamic website from scratch utilizing pre-written (libraries or frameworks such as CI) and custom-code; b: being able to take the generalized ideas of a client (for some reason they are ALWAYS ALWAYS vague) and turn them into a living, breathing working reality.; c. be like me (and other developers) stay up till 7AM programming/answering questions of others then wake up again at 11AM and start it all over 7 days a week 365 days a year....
at that point, you'd be able to consider yourself a true developer. these people who get an project, design a site in 20 minutes, and have it live 2 hours later are NOT developers... they're more like, what is wrong with the industry... they supply the internet what I commonly refer to as 'blatant waste of space' type websites...
Now getting into the industry can be hard too. People these days buy software from walmart and say 'k i have a website' but when they need something from a professional, they cry at the price... clients usually want to pay around 1.50 an hour of your work (averaged out from all the clients/potential clients i have had this year) which for obvious reasons you cant do and still make your minimum income need per month...
off topic please help me :( - El Forum - 08-19-2011
[eluser]Mirge[/eluser]
I'd just like to chime in to clarify that CMS's such as Joomla, Wordpress, Drupal, etc are *not* for everybody (clearly), but that does not make them garbage by any means. Being closed-minded *can* (as seen) have an impact on your ability to get work.
I built a site for MTV using Wordpress as the CMS, and they are thrilled. See link in signature for details.
That having been said, I am (and have been for several months now) overbooked (55-65 hour weeks) and TURNING AWAY work from clients who are not only willing, but WANT (because they know I'm worth it) to pay me $50/hour & higher.
All that having been said.. practice makes perfect. Keep building sites and/or software packages... you'll be "great" before you know it
.
off topic please help me :( - El Forum - 08-19-2011
[eluser]jblack199[/eluser]
Agreed Mirge, CMS isn't for everybody. I personally dislike most CMS software such as joomla and Drupal mainly because they are bloated, hard to work with and usually contain functions that most people will never ever use as well as functions they should never have access to as a site-owner (not administrator) because they could end up breaking the site by using them incorrectly.
As far as wordpress goes, it is great software don't get me wrong. but it's blogging software, the fact that people use it as a CMS doesn't make it one. It is blogging software and it always will be and using it as a CMS makes it garbage. Now, not liking wordpress for a CMS and not liking joomla or drupal has an impact on finding a 40 hour a week job with guaranteed money -- it does NOT hurt the ammount of work that I get coming in as I get to pick and choose what projects I actually WANT to do instead of being told 'do this, do that'...
I don't turn away work even though I am overextended myself, I just add more onto my plate. But this might be why I only sleep about 3 hours a day and go through energy drinks like crazy throughout the day (just finished my 6th one right now)...
off topic please help me :( - El Forum - 08-19-2011
[eluser]Mirge[/eluser]
I'm personally not a fan of Joomla, simply because I don't have the time or energy to spend a week (or two, or three) training the client once all is said & done how to USE the damn thing. Sorry Joomla fans, no offense intended.
I can't help but laugh when people say Wordpress is a blogging platform *only*. I've stopped trying to convince people otherwise, and continue laughing all the way to the bank. Yes, I do work about 55-65 hour weeks (but in turn pull in well over $100,000/year), and nearly ALL of my work consists of Wordpress and CodeIgniter builds... because I'm intimately familiar with Wordpress (moreso than you, I'm willing to bet -- and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, you don't like Wordpress, nobody can force you to use it nor should they try)... I understand and take advantage of the fact that it's NOT simply a blogging platform, but rather *is* a full blown CMS.
The reason I don't keep piling on work is because if I can't give my clients the actual dedication that their projects and ideas deserve, it's not fair for me to charge 'em for it.
My clients want their sites up quickly, want them super easy to maintain, modify and grow, and want them to scale well.... all of which Wordpress has done for me repeatedly, so I continue to use it.
Not trying to convince you that Wordpress is fantastic, it's just what works for me and my clients. You're free (of course) and in fact encouraged to use whatever you're comfortable with... I just think it's a little hard-headed to try make Wordpress (and other CMS's) out to be "garbage" without really letting it have a fair shot. This is by no means meant to attack you or anybody, just a way for people who stumble across this thread to see a different opinion on WP.
May your success continue for many years! And mine too
off topic please help me :( - El Forum - 08-19-2011
[eluser]jblack199[/eluser]
Yeah clients all want their sites up quickly... most want them super-easy to maintain, modify and grow as well as having scalability that's not just your clients. I personally have a base adminpanel (not a full blown cms) that I programmed from scratch that I just add in extra functions as needed and program the front end... I am however working on my own CMS using CI because its fun (full blown CMS, but light weight unlike joomla, drupal, wordpress, etc)...
You may very-well have more knowledge in WP than I do, though the first time I used it was for a simple blog back when it was first released and I have used it periodically since then. However the fact still remains that WP itself is a blogging platform, though many people (through the use of plugins and such) customize it into a CMS.
55-65 hour weeks I would be happy with. You work about half as much as me.. Now I wont say how much I pull in every year because that's not important here... This off-topic topic has gone off topic itself, mainly because I said to him a REAL developer does custom work... taking html to impregnate a template and downloading plugins for WP, Joomla, Drupal, etc isn't developing anything (which is what 90% of WP and CMS users do).. its that 10% of WP or CMS users that actually custom-program things for their websites that can call themselves a 'developer'...
Like I do a lot of shopping carts, some are custom but most are done through either OsCommerce or X-Cart Gold... If that's all i did, I couldn't (and wouldn't) call myself a developer, because I'm not developing anything. I (and my clients), generally appreciate the fact that I actually develop their product rather than just taking some crap from the internet and churning it out to get their site online quick. But, that's usually because the type of projects I get, are like I said shopping carts for one but also sites that pretty much require custom programming such as clones to groupon.com or fixes to their joomla/wordpress sites because they (or their 'developer') screwed something up and have no clue how to fix it, or even one off systems such as this debt thing I am working on right this very moment for a client... I am a custom DEVELOPER because thats what I like to do, if you(anyone out there) like to use WP or Joomla or any of the other CMS's out there then thats great. But using them and being a developer would be two different things..