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Office Hours - April 2015 - Printable Version

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Office Hours - April 2015 - jlp - 04-09-2015

Thank you for responding to the polls for the "best time" and "best day" for an office hour.

Based on the feedback, I am scheduling two "office hours" over the next week: Sunday April 12, 20:00UTC and Wednesday April 15, 16:00UTC.

During one-hour timeslots starting at each of the above times, I will be on the CodeIgniter IRC channel to answer questions you might have. I may be joined by one or more of the other council members. For those unable to "attend", the transcript will be posted here.

RE: Office Hours - April 2015 - jlp - 04-12-2015

This afternoon's office hour has concluded. Transcript below:

(01:00:30 PM) jlparry: ***************************************************************
(01:00:30 PM) jlparry: Welcome to the CodeIgniter Office Hour
(01:00:30 PM) jlparry: This is Jim Parry, Project Lead
(01:00:30 PM) jlparry: We are here to answer any questions you have. Be nice!
(01:00:30 PM) jlparry: ***************************************************************
(01:02:01 PM) skope: what is life?
(01:02:22 PM) jlparry: 42
(01:02:30 PM) skope: thank you, that solved it
(01:02:36 PM) jlparry: ;p
(01:02:59 PM) skope: is this some official stuff, should i be quiet?
(01:03:49 PM) jlparry: this is "official", yes ... announced on the forum. you should tone down the profanity and bad jokes
(01:04:09 PM) skope: check
(01:04:34 PM) jlparry: the transscript will be posted on the forum afterwards
(01:05:23 PM) jlparry: i expected to be swamped with questions and gripes about CI4 ... this was the most commonly requested time for an office hour
(01:05:42 PM) skope: actually, are there new planned features for ci4?
(01:06:08 PM) jimi_: blah
(01:06:17 PM) jimi_: pow(0,0) = 1 in php
(01:06:18 PM) jimi_: wtf
(01:06:22 PM) jlparry:
(01:06:40 PM) skope: heh, should really read the forums, thanks :)
(01:06:55 PM) jlparry: it helps, sometimes
(01:09:25 PM) skope: so there are plans of increasing the minimum php version requirement, what is it?
(01:09:53 PM) jlparry: not decided yet. the forum polls are collecting community input
(01:13:29 PM) skope: that might be hard to decide tho, because of timeframe that ci4s release has. it should be decided on what most stable server versions has as default
(01:14:55 PM) jlparry: maybe. there are merits to lower version (wider applicability) and higher version (better security, more language features)
(01:15:18 PM) skope: i think availability to most users is better
(01:15:47 PM) skope: but ofc you have to consider security too
(01:16:28 PM) jlparry: current poll shows 56% favor 5.6, 20% favor 5.4
(01:16:59 PM) jlparry: we didn't put 7 or hhvm on the list
(01:17:06 PM) skope: yeah, useless
(01:17:20 PM) skope: though seven comes out in Q3 iirc
(01:19:45 PM) jlparry: i haven't looked to see what might be incompatible with 5, but not sure that it is something we would want to start with tiday
(01:20:35 PM) skope: yeah
(01:22:05 PM) gadelat: I would like to ask who are the core members of CI council?
(01:24:36 PM) Dephenom left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
(01:25:22 PM) VictorCL left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
(01:25:48 PM) jlparry: gadelat:
(01:28:13 PM) Kricir_ left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(01:35:17 PM) VictorCL [[email protected]] entered the room.
(01:36:15 PM) gadelat: As I see it, Andrey Andreev is the only regular contributor outside of documentation. Do you have any plans for enlarging this team of developers? E.g.any promising university students?
(01:37:53 PM) jlparry: You are correct. We would love to expand the team. Some of the council might be able to help with that.
(01:38:13 PM) Fiber^ left the room (quit: Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria
(01:38:30 PM) jlparry: I have promising students, yes, but not a practical way to involve them given their student workload.
(01:39:20 PM) jlparry: I am working with my institute's bureaucracy to figure out a way around that, perhaps something similar to the UCOSP project I mentored this past term
(01:40:09 PM) jlparry: Ideally, I would get a few of my good students to spend a 4-5 week fulltime stint contributing, but that is still a ways off
(01:42:32 PM) jlparry: I think we are better off persuading another core contributor or two from the developer community
(01:43:08 PM) gadelat: How about offering them bachelors/masters topics regarding writing new f
(01:43:11 PM) Kricir [[email protected]] entered the room.
(01:43:16 PM) gadelat: *new CI features?
(01:43:25 PM) jlparry: i am pursuing that as well
(01:43:59 PM) jlparry: the problem is that open source contributions don't quite fit the "project model" that BCIT has ... real world, industry-sponsored.
(01:44:05 PM) jlparry: we are not considered industry :(
(01:44:39 PM) jlparry: i am battling to have us so considered, which would eliminate one roadblock
(01:45:30 PM) jlparry: if you are thinking of a separate course on open source development, i am pursuing that as well, but that is an even steeper uphill battle
(01:45:46 PM) reynierpm [[email protected]] entered the room.
(01:46:04 PM) jlparry: this is post-secondary education, and course outlines have to go through multiple stages of approval (read committees, ew) ... it doesn't happen overnight
(01:46:18 PM) reynierpm left the room.
(01:47:01 PM) jlparry: i think the situation will be different in a few years, but right now the institute is struggling to get its head wrapped around open source and how that fits in with it
(01:47:22 PM) jlparry: and I am championing the fight
(01:47:35 PM) jlparry: I might be ready to retire once it is done :-/
(01:49:33 PM) jimi_: :(
(01:50:02 PM) gadelat: Hm that is pretty bad, because as of right now I don't think there is enough development power to finish features that community asks for in reasonable time
(01:51:43 PM) jlparry: that is possible
(01:52:17 PM) jlparry: that's a big reason why we need to establish features, and prioritize them, and come up with a plan for making CI4 happen
(01:53:07 PM) jlparry: i am hoping that the project environment is better than it was a few years ago, and that we can attract a few more people to the core team. that would make a big difference
(01:53:14 PM) jimi_: jlparry, Have you thought about reaching out to graduate students?
(01:53:37 PM) jlparry: already done ... i have two i am pressing to join in a bigger way
(01:54:25 PM) jlparry: if i can rope two in, that gives me more ammunition to recruit more!
(01:55:20 PM) jlparry: but that isn't who i was thinking of a couple of lines above ... i would see the grads as more junior than a developer with years of experience, hopefully more than a few with CI
(01:56:01 PM) jimi_: ah ok
(01:56:07 PM) jlparry: that might actually not be fair to the two i am pitching to at the moment - they both have 5-10 years of experience
(01:57:09 PM) jimi_: ah ok
(01:57:24 PM) jimi_: well, i think you should have them work on the PHP project and fix the pow() implementation :P
(01:57:39 PM) jlparry: not gonna happen ... that's a different can of worms
(01:57:44 PM) jlparry: or is it a war of words
(01:57:51 PM) jlparry: :-/
(01:58:16 PM) jimi_: haha ya
(01:58:25 PM) jimi_: sucks because pow(0,0) returns 1 even though its undefined.
(01:59:17 PM) jlparry: talk to three mathmaticians and you might get three different answers/interpretations to that
(01:59:48 PM) jimi_: i am a mathematician :P
(01:59:57 PM) jlparry: ok, so four answers
(02:00:01 PM) jimi_: :P
(02:00:30 PM) jlparry: i would say that x^0 = 1 regardless of x
(02:00:51 PM) jimi_: 0! = 1 for convience
(02:01:33 PM) jimi_: But unfortunately 0^0 is not contiguous across the origin
(02:01:41 PM) jimi_: continuous*
(02:01:57 PM) jlparry: agreed
(02:04:21 PM) jlparry: Any more office hour kinda questions?
(02:04:42 PM) VictorCL: :D
(02:04:52 PM) gadelat: What is the planned process leading up to decision of CI 4 plan?
(02:05:56 PM) jlparry: we are collecting community input at present. not sure how long that will need to go on before a somewhat clear list of needed vs desireable features emerges
(02:07:15 PM) jlparry: at some point, we (the council) will collate the community feedback together with our ideas, and devise and publish a CI4 plan ... features with roadmap
(02:07:57 PM) jlparry: that might happen early in May, but I suspect June more likely **disclaimer: these are not commitments**
(02:09:10 PM) jlparry: some trends are clear in the community feedback (namespaces, modules), while others are less so (REST, composer)
(02:10:17 PM) jlparry: this is not something to bang out in an afternoon :)
(02:10:57 PM) jlparry: gadelat: sensible?
(02:11:09 PM) gadelat: Well before that happens, I believe community would like to hear opinions about presented CI 4 topics from CI council members. They are pretty quiet about this.
(02:11:42 PM) jlparry: on purpose ... we are trying not to influence things
(02:12:30 PM) jlparry: i have posted a few suggestions passed on to me, and tried to make it clear that i am not endorsing or promoting them, but instead raising them to preserve anonymity
(02:13:17 PM) jlparry: i'll confer with them and see if it would be appropriate to comment on some/all of the proposed features, though
(02:15:18 PM) jlparry: i think it is still early in the process ... it looks about 50 community members max have voted on any one of the proposed features.
(02:16:52 PM) batfastad left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
(02:17:55 PM) gadelat: Fair enough.
(02:18:07 PM) jlparry: ***************************************************************
(02:18:07 PM) jlparry: Thank you for joining us for the CodeIgniter Office Hour
(02:18:07 PM) jlparry: ***************************************************************
(02:18:08 PM) jimi_ left the room (quit: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
(02:18:44 PM) jlparry: The next "office hour" is scheduled for weds April 15, at 16:00 UTC

RE: Office Hours - April 2015 - jlp - 04-15-2015

Today's office hour has concluded. Not a lot of action! Transcript below:

(09:01:19 AM) jlparry: ***************************************************************
(09:01:19 AM) jlparry: Welcome to the CodeIgniter Office Hour
(09:01:19 AM) jlparry: This is Jim Parry, Project Lead
(09:01:19 AM) jlparry: We are here to answer any questions you have. Be nice!
(09:01:19 AM) jlparry: ***************************************************************
(09:01:53 AM) jlparry: zigmoo: the moment you have been waiting for ...
(09:06:22 AM) freshpixel__ [[email protected]] entered the room.
(09:08:52 AM) marcogmonteiro: hey freshpixel_  long time to see, all good?
(09:09:01 AM) marcogmonteiro: hey jlparry
(09:09:27 AM) freshpixel_ left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
marcogmonteiro MarkyC
(09:10:12 AM) jlparry: marcogmonteiro: hey, hey
(09:11:00 AM) VictorCL_: jlparry doing an IAmA
(09:11:09 AM) jlparry: ?
(09:11:09 AM) marcogmonteiro: hehehe kinda :D
(09:11:37 AM) marcogmonteiro: jlparry it's a reddit thing, where people go there and say, hello I am foo, ask me anything :P
(09:11:57 AM) marcogmonteiro left the room (quit: Quit: So long!).
(09:12:01 AM) jlparry: ah ... sorta, except a bit more focused
(09:12:05 AM) dnap [68eb0c52@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] entered the room.
(09:12:32 AM) VictorCL_: jlparry I have a question, after codeigniter 3 being long time under development and changed owner .. will stuff be moving faster now?
(09:13:10 AM) VictorCL_: what can we expect for CI future?
(09:13:36 AM) jlparry: i think stuff already is ... the community has re-engaged, we have lots of contributions (though we need more on the core team), and we are actively trying to move forward
(09:14:06 AM) jlparry: "short term" - CI4
(09:14:50 AM) jlparry: CI has a home, a loving family, and a mission ... should be around for a while :)
(09:15:37 AM) Croves left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
(09:18:50 AM) jlparry: if you are looking for a CI feature list, that is premature ... that is playing out on the forum
(09:19:27 AM) jlparry: at the last office hour, i was asked if the council could provide some feedback in that forum, on where our heads are at and what we think of the proposed features
(09:19:35 AM) Daga left the room (quit: Quit: Pretend I said something witty...).
(09:19:54 AM) jlparry: we are in the middle of preparing that - should be posted in the next few days
(09:20:25 AM) D-Boy left the room (quit: Excess Flood).
(09:20:35 AM) D-Boy [~D-Boy@unaffiliated/cain] entered the room.
(09:22:52 AM) banghouse [[email protected]] entered the room.
(09:27:52 AM) banghouse left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
(09:28:22 AM) hsquared left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving.).
(09:32:08 AM) TheEddyFerreira [[email protected]] entered the room.
(09:32:18 AM) TheEddyFerreira left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(09:34:15 AM) VictorCL_: jlparry CI4 is already under development or still deciding on how is going to be?
(09:34:30 AM) jlparry: still in planning/playing stage
(09:35:34 AM) jlparry: it will likely be june before we are ready to look at serious development
(09:36:48 AM) VictorCL_: CI revival
(09:37:10 AM) VictorCL_: many people left CI because they though that the project was dead
(09:37:16 AM) jlparry: agreed
(09:37:27 AM) jlparry: or because they wanted the kitchen sink with their framework
(09:37:47 AM) VictorCL_: if we talk more about CI4 people will realize that new stuff coming up and they will get interested again
(09:37:54 AM) VictorCL_: jlparry :)
(09:37:57 AM) jlparry: hope so!
(09:38:35 AM) VictorCL_: we need to translate the userguide
(09:38:58 AM) jlparry: looks like about 60 have voted on something (or many things) on the CI4 subforum ... i am pretty sure that there are more developers than that using CI
(09:39:10 AM) VictorCL_: many people coming asking for a french/spanish userguide
(09:39:56 AM) jlparry: 196 pages, hmmm - how long would that take to translate, do you think?
(09:40:07 AM) jlparry: page = HTML page; some of those are quite lengthy
(09:40:32 AM) jlparry: bottom line - great idea, but we do not have the resources to do an initial translation, let alone keep multiple translations in sync :(
(09:40:40 AM) VictorCL_: yes I understand
(09:40:43 AM) VictorCL_: involve the comunity
(09:41:13 AM) jlparry: we are having better luck with the system message translations, but that is a lot less work
(09:41:28 AM) jlparry: even still, trying to coordinate and sync 35 translations is a challenge
(09:41:50 AM) VictorCL_: we could like .. google translate the 196 pages and then we just have to fix the errors from google translate ,much less work
(09:42:02 AM) VictorCL_: it wont be perfect, but is something
(09:42:37 AM) jlparry: i am not convinced that google translate would work ... you don't want code mangled, for instance
(09:43:29 AM) jlparry: actually, if google translate is "good enough", then why not use use to browse the manual?
(09:45:05 AM) jlparry: i just tried that, and the code examples are mangled. it changes key things, eg. $config becomes "$ Config" and $hooks becomes "$ Gancho"
(09:45:58 AM) MarkyC_ [[email protected]] entered the room.
(09:47:13 AM) MarkyC left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
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(09:48:57 AM) VictorCL_: yeah thats a problem
(09:49:14 AM) VictorCL_: gancho xD
(09:49:28 AM) VictorCL_: would be good if google translate had some kind of filters
(09:49:33 AM) lilsammy left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
(09:49:59 AM) jlparry: here ya go ... let's see what the general response is ...
(09:51:31 AM) jlparry: have you looked at the user guide source? it's in RST and the HTML is generated by sphinx
(09:52:03 AM) VictorCL_: spanish
(09:52:06 AM) VictorCL_: many spanish people asking
(09:53:38 AM) jlparry: agreed - i just used a couple of examples, and i didn't want to sound like i was asking your question for you. i have inquiries about french & persian
(09:54:18 AM) banghouse [[email protected]] entered the room.
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(10:06:14 AM) jlparry: *****************************************************************************************************
(10:06:14 AM) jlparry: Thank you, VictorCL & marcogmonteiro (briefly), for joining me for the CodeIgniter Office Hour
(10:06:14 AM) jlparry: *****************************************************************************************************

RE: Office Hours - April 2015 - alkarim - 04-16-2015

great to hear that man. Smile