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The future of Codeigniter

The intelligent part of me will not allow me to come on and start bragging about credentials. For one thing, there's no shortage of people doing that already and, secondly, I don't expect anyone to care.

My questions have been answered. My thoughts about how Codeigniter is being managed are clear. Thank you.

Have a nice day.

(This post was last modified: 06-24-2020, 12:37 AM by MIS.)

Thanks for the question @Davcon and also thanks for those helpful answers.

I think some existing CI3 developers get confused with CI4 when they try to migrate it. As they are used to CI3 architecture they may expect it from CI4. That's how lots of questions arise into the head. But the architecture of CI4 is different. So those developers need some extra basic knowledge on how a modern framework works.

CI4 is a solid start for its kind. I think it has a bright future. The Codeigniter foundation should get stronger. They should create more business opportunities around the framework.

Hi @Davcon, I'm that guy with the machine gun answers apparently. You said and I quote "I open these questions up to anyone", so that's what I did. Answered all of them. You may or may not like my answer, but that's my stand of thing.

You never mentioned that you have created any YouTube videos and you said that you haven't provided any code to the framework, but your whole business depends on it. So I'm just found it curious that someone who have been using CodeIgniter since 2011 (apparently) haven't helped out. And you put all blame on the people who have put their soul into the project.

CodeIgniter 3 are indeed popular as it's base can be used to upgrade from the first ever release of CodeIgniter, but as you know Laravel have taken over. And the reason for that are that added something new to the market, while CodeIgniter stayed the same. In in the long run, it lead to the downfall of CodeIgniter user base. CodeIgniter 3 works on PHP 7.3, and some addons have failed, but we can't fix everything ourselves.

Sure they re-wrote Laravel a couple of times, but people still are using it. So did they do something wrong? No - they did what the market wanted. A brand new framework that uses new technology.

CodeIgniter 3 are still being used, as it's the simplest framework out there, great documentation and years of tutorials. But there are a catch to that, it got a old architecture that's not making any headlines. That is why CodeIgniter 4 where born, a re-write of the framework to be the framework of the future - not the past.

No one stuck around for what "British Columbia Institute of Technology" (now CodeIgniter Foundation) did or didn't do, they stuck around for that single person (@narfbg) who kept going all these years. He does still to this day take care of business (as far as I know): https://github.com/bcit-ci/CodeIgniter/commits/develop

If a large number of developers suffers from lacking bug fixes, and new features in CodeIgniter 3. Why dosen't these people show themselves? This are the first time that I have heard about people suffering, there are no threads about the matter.

There are 61 open issues and 43 pull requests, and all of them (except the latest ones) have been answered by @narfbg, how much more do you expect from one person? If you have that knowledge, do something with it and help others! It's not like your whole business depends on it...

Indeed it gets run by people with normal jobs, we have no funding, so we cannot do it full time. So the Community runs this, as no one gets paid.

Yes, I think it's madness to say that CodeIgniter 4 will battle against big tech, it's not mature enough yet. Laravel didn't get built in one day and required multiple iterations before it got it's grandeur. And so will we.

I haven't seen anyone questioned the management before, so that's news to me. If people didn't agree or wanted it in a faster paste, they need to help out. It's not we have 100 programmers just waiting on us to tell them what to do. So 10/10 for what they managed to do, keeping it alive. You could have taken over in 2014, if you wanted.

Yeah, you heard it first here guys! I managed to shut down CodeIgniter by making 1000 forum posts, fixing bugs and the documentation. And wanting more people that could help us, instead of just blaming us for doing nothing while understaffed.

We aren't putting people out of business, we don't get paid by anyone. So if you want something done, you need to start helping out. We all have our hands full.

@orionstar I would also like some more information about that, have @narfbg made an official announcement somewhere?

Well... at least you responded. At least you showed up. At this point in time, I'm just wondering if your negative attitude is representative of the Foundation as a whole.

Who the Hell is in charge anyway? I want to speak to the person who is responsible for the desecration of one of the most popular intellectual assets in the history of the tech industry.

Where oh where is THAT person?

I'm not interested in being insulted by some self pitying part timer who somehow seems to think that there's glory in not being paid.

There's nothing that we have in common whatsoever. Your contribution to Codeigniter is utterly insignificant next to mine. On my worst day, I could code faster and better than ten of you on your best day. You have never met anyone like me before and you are totally out of your depth.

So, step aside - hobbiest - and let the grown ups talk. You're way out of your depth.

Where's the owner?

WHO is the owner?

Does anyone even know who the owner is?

I want to talk to the owner, ideally on a live stream on YouTube.

Let the owner come forward. I'm waiting and I have 5,000 Codeigniter developers in my back pocket. We're all sick of watching you clowns destroying Codeigniter in a sea of self pity and delusion.

Ten out of ten? So, you'd score the management ten out of ten? And you think five years is acceptable for a framework rewrite? THE IPHONE WAS INVENTED AND BUILT IN THREE YEARS!

So, step aside - you arrogant little parasite - and make way for the heavyweights.

Where's the owner? I'll do the owner the favour of assuming that the owner has a more positive attitude.

Where's the owner? It's about time we had a talk.

Let the owner come forward.

I'm waiting.

(06-23-2020, 07:50 AM)Davcon Wrote: 1.  Do you think it's acceptable to take five years to rewrite a framework?

Yes, yes I do. I've been involved with CI in one form or the other from the time it belonged to ElisLab until now. And even when I used to hangout at the IRC #codeigniter channel the question "When will _insertversionhere_ will be ready?" The answer always was, its ready when it's ready. Specially when ElisLab left the project.

(06-23-2020, 07:50 AM)Davcon Wrote: 2.  Do you think the insertion of thousands of lines of copyright notices on CI3 represents good intention or petty bureaucracy?

Can't really answer this, but if the project is now maintained by the Codeigniter foundation and not University of British Columbia the copyright should reflect that. At least in CI 4

(06-23-2020, 07:50 AM)Davcon Wrote: 3.  Do you think that Codeigniter is in a stronger position - relative to other frameworks - than it was when it was owned by EllisLab?

At the time CI was created to support EllisLab product. Their CMS. Even if there was a pull request on github that could bring awesome stuff to the framework, but somehow could bring problems to their product they would simply reject that proposal. I don't thing that can happen now. Because now it's a true community project. That makes it better than what it was at the time IMO.

(06-23-2020, 07:50 AM)Davcon Wrote: 4.  Now that five years have passed and we have some history to look back upon, how would you rate the management of Codeigniter, on a scale of one to ten, since ownership was passed from Ellislab to the University of British Columbia?

As for CI I can't really say much, but if it was not for the University of British Columbia there would be not codeigniter now. They kept the community going and they have my thanks for it. I'd give then 10/10.

(06-23-2020, 07:50 AM)Davcon Wrote: 5.  Given the fact that industry leading frameworks like Angular are component driven (i.e., modular), do you think it was a wise decision for the guardians of Codeigniter to throw out the family jewels and turn their backs on modular web development?

I really don't get this question, since CI4 you can have modular stuff in it.

(06-23-2020, 07:50 AM)Davcon Wrote: 6.  Given the fact that the web development community appears to be on the verge of moving AWAY from centralised, privately owned code sharing websites - such as Packagist and NPM - do you think it was a good idea to tether CI4 to PSR?

7.  Codeigniter HAD the fastest benchmarks of all of the leading PHP frameworks.  It's factually provable.  Thanks to PSR-4 autoloading (as seen in CI4) those benchmarks and CI's unique position in the marketplace has now been thrown down the toilet - sacrificed in exchange for some kind of approval from a self appointed governing body who go by the name of PHPFIG.  Do you think this was an exchange that strengthened Codeigniter's position within the marketplace?

Don't really have an answer for this one.

(06-23-2020, 07:50 AM)Davcon Wrote: 8.  Unless I'm very much mistaken there are no Codeigniter conferences, no podcasts, no official YouTube channel and not even a working 'contact us' form!  This is in stark contrast to the Laravel community, who enjoy a calendar that's packed with all sorts of live events and exciting launches.  So, please help me to understand this... by what definition do any of you think that Codeigniter has a thriving community?

Do something about it mate. I'm doing what I can after my 9-5 job. I write blog posts about CI, I help out people on the slack channel. I'm planing on start doing some screencasts on youtube on how to use the new Framework. If there's something you can do, just do it (just_do_it.gif) :p.

(06-23-2020, 07:50 AM)Davcon Wrote: 11.  Finally, why should anyone use Codeigniter?  One thing's for sure - you've certainly no longer got the right to talk about market leading benchmarks.  So, go ahead.  I'd love to hear the elevator pitch.  Why should any developer choose Codeigniter? 

At our company I decide what framework is used and where. For instance, before CI4 all our internal projects were done in Ci3, I mean our internal projects like intranet, small apps used by our company. For our clients we used stuff like laravel. I decided that for a reason. Ci3 had, and still have a thing that I love. Stability and stuff to the base structure barely change. That is really good for projects that you want to manage and keep active for 5 years or more. You don't want a framework that changes completely from version to version like laravel for projects like that. Your either are stuck with a version or have to spend a lot of time aka money upgrading from one version to the next. When we're talking about internal projects that is not ideal. You want to spend as less time you can in them. It's not like a client project where you can just charge them for the upgrade. 

Overall, I think CI4 has a bright future ahead and I truly believe in the project.
Website: marcomonteiro.net  | Blog: blog.marcomonteiro.net | Twitter: @marcogmonteiro | TILThings: tilthings.com

As far as the HMVC for CodeIgniter 3 I have always had a download for a php 7 working version of it.

All you had to do was ask in the forums or contacted me my email and I would have given you the download
link to it.
What did you Try? What did you Get? What did you Expect?

Joined CodeIgniter Community 2009.  ( Skype: insitfx )

Quote:So, step aside - you arrogant little parasite - and make way for the heavyweights.

David, I have been following your videos on Youtube for around two years now and I think you have to be careful because people might start to lose respect.

Quote:So, step aside - hobbiest - and let the grown ups talk.  You're way out of your depth.

What are your actual goals? It seems to me that you could be the one that is out of your depth. As I said, I have watched almost every one of your videos that have been uploaded for around the last two years and I have heard you say things like:

  • Agile is BS
  • PSR is BS
  • Unit Tests are BS
  • Template engines in PHP are BS
  • Design Patterns and other software architecture is BS
  • Developers that use the terminal are Gatekeepers
Whilst I totally agree with you that there is a lot of unnecessary bureaucracy (like PSR) going on in web dev, those things are there for a reason. For example, if you follow PSR then it means that you code to a particular standard and other developers also following that standard will be able to work with it more easily. Design Patterns are invaluable for my work and get me out of code spaghetti that I could write had I not known about them. Just this week you released a video about how you had named a password field in Trongate incorrectly and an update fixed it - if you used unit tests, that wouldn't have even been an issue. As I said, I agree that its becoming bureaucratic, but a lot of these ideas are there to make the software better. Additionally, template engines like Twig or Blade do have there uses like giving designers that don't understand the code the ability to implement their design.

I disagree about your thoughts on Terminal use though. You say development is about speed (I agree) - knowing how to get things done in the terminal is much faster once you learn it. Vim even more so.

One of the negatives about being a developer these days is having to learn constantly. That's just the way it is. It would be great to learn one thing and only have to know that for the rest of my career but that's not how technology works. Those that don't embrace change will get left behind. Thankfully though, once you have a basic understanding of development then you see the patterns everywhere.

Quote:Your contribution to Codeigniter is utterly insignificant next to mine.  On my worst day, I could code faster and better than ten of you on your best day.  You have never met anyone like me before and you are totally out of your depth.
Where are your pull requests/commits? You made videos (which are incredibly helpful - thank your for taking the time to make them) that you removed from Youtube. Show us the bug fixes you have contributed? For someone whose business depends on CI3, it appears that the contribution of code to the actual project to make it better is very little.

It's an open source project. People have contributed their own free time to get where it is now. You could fork the project and take it to where you want it to be.

Quote:On my worst day, I could code faster and better than ten of you on your best day.  You have never met anyone like me before and you are totally out of your depth.
Keep it professional. For someone who is a 'heavyweight' developer (what ever that means, sounds a bit like gatekeeping to me) it seems to me from what you have said in your videos that you refuse to learn things that a 'professional/heavyweight' developer might be expected to know. The Trongate Framework doesn't have unit tests that I can see. Bugs are inevitable and that's to be expected but a professional framework should have certain level of craftsmanship that can be trusted to work and easy to make bugs found and fixed. Unit tests for example are a tool to achieve a decent level of craftsmanship that is to be expected from a professional framework right of the bat.

I think that the majority of your 'speed coders' are beginner developers and that's totally fine. However, they don't understand why professional developers build software in the ways that they do because they lack the experience needed to create quality software and quality code. Development is not just about building something and taking the money. Its about building quality software with well written code that is maintainable hence design patterns etc.

Polymorphism: welcome to the forum and thank you for paying attention to my content.

Unfortunately, I'm not going to be around here for much longer. So, I will not be able to respond to any of your concerns and I certainly don't want to be accused of advertising Trongate in here. Not only would that be incredibly ungraceful but I haven't even launched the thing yet.

So, I do not wish to talk about that here. Same goes for Speed Coding Academy. This is not the time or the place for me to go promoting things.


I came here to offer some help. I like to think that I have a skillset and a degree of experience that would have enabled me to offer some valuable help. Unfortunately, it seems to me that nobody is taking responsibility for the downfall of the Codeigniter framework. To my surprise there are people in our midst who are eager to defend, what I consider to be, the indefensible.

For example, to leave the Codeigniter homepage without a single update for six years displays a STAGGERING degree of mismanagement. Rather than facing up to things like that I'm seeing people in positions of authority awarding the faceless management ten of of ten. We've also seen - within the last 24 hours - a declaration that it's perfectly acceptable to take five years to rewrite a framework. I built Trongate in five days!

I honestly don't even know who owns Codeigniter and I have a feeling that most of you don't know either. Whoever it is, they remain silent, anonymous, faceless and uncontactable. The person who owns the domain name codeigniter.com has bent over backwards to make themselves perfectly anonymous. Whenever I see large groups of people, proudly boasting about working for free and I discover that they're working for some shadow dwelling, faceless owner then I smell a rat.

There is something VERY wrong with how the Codeigniter framework is being managed. I haven't figured it out yet but there is something not right here. I've been around the block enough times to see that.

I therefore call upon the owner of Codeigniter to reveal yourself and to join me in a live stream so that we can talk about what went wrong. Peoples' incomes are being harmed and they deserve answers.

I'm easy to find if you need me. Best of luck.


Quote:I certainly don't want to be accused of advertising Trongate in here

Quote:I'm waiting and I have 5,000 Codeigniter developers in my back pocket

Quote:Peoples' incomes are being harmed and they deserve answers.

CI Developers owe nothing. Sad but true. Its open source. There are many alternatives.

Why can't all these developers give back (seen as they rely on it) and submit pull requests to make the framework better? The same goes for you. CI is great and could still be a major player. Fork it and take it your own way. I would happily work with you on this.

(This post was last modified: 06-24-2020, 08:47 AM by orionstar.)

@albertleao @jreklund I dont know any specific, he just disappeard. I check the old repo daily to know about any bug or issue that might affect me.

I think we should ignore @Davcon he's clearly delusional.

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