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Office Hours - April 2015

Thank you for responding to the polls for the "best time" and "best day" for an office hour.

Based on the feedback, I am scheduling two "office hours" over the next week: Sunday April 12, 20:00UTC and Wednesday April 15, 16:00UTC.

During one-hour timeslots starting at each of the above times, I will be on the CodeIgniter IRC channel to answer questions you might have. I may be joined by one or more of the other council members. For those unable to "attend", the transcript will be posted here.
James Parry
Project Lead

This afternoon's office hour has concluded. Transcript below:

(01:00:30 PM) jlparry: ***************************************************************
(01:00:30 PM) jlparry: Welcome to the CodeIgniter Office Hour
(01:00:30 PM) jlparry: This is Jim Parry, Project Lead
(01:00:30 PM) jlparry: We are here to answer any questions you have. Be nice!
(01:00:30 PM) jlparry: ***************************************************************
(01:02:01 PM) skope: what is life?
(01:02:22 PM) jlparry: 42
(01:02:30 PM) skope: thank you, that solved it
(01:02:36 PM) jlparry: ;p
(01:02:59 PM) skope: is this some official stuff, should i be quiet?
(01:03:49 PM) jlparry: this is "official", yes ... announced on the forum. you should tone down the profanity and bad jokes
(01:04:09 PM) skope: check
(01:04:34 PM) jlparry: the transscript will be posted on the forum afterwards
(01:05:23 PM) jlparry: i expected to be swamped with questions and gripes about CI4 ... this was the most commonly requested time for an office hour
(01:05:42 PM) skope: actually, are there new planned features for ci4?
(01:06:08 PM) jimi_: blah
(01:06:17 PM) jimi_: pow(0,0) = 1 in php
(01:06:18 PM) jimi_: wtf
(01:06:22 PM) jlparry: http://forum.codeigniter.com/forum-27.html
(01:06:40 PM) skope: heh, should really read the forums, thanks :)
(01:06:55 PM) jlparry: it helps, sometimes
(01:09:25 PM) skope: so there are plans of increasing the minimum php version requirement, what is it?
(01:09:53 PM) jlparry: not decided yet. the forum polls are collecting community input
(01:13:29 PM) skope: that might be hard to decide tho, because of timeframe that ci4s release has. it should be decided on what most stable server versions has as default
(01:14:55 PM) jlparry: maybe. there are merits to lower version (wider applicability) and higher version (better security, more language features)
(01:15:18 PM) skope: i think availability to most users is better
(01:15:47 PM) skope: but ofc you have to consider security too
(01:16:28 PM) jlparry: current poll shows 56% favor 5.6, 20% favor 5.4
(01:16:59 PM) jlparry: we didn't put 7 or hhvm on the list
(01:17:06 PM) skope: yeah, useless
(01:17:20 PM) skope: though seven comes out in Q3 iirc
(01:19:45 PM) jlparry: i haven't looked to see what might be incompatible with 5, but not sure that it is something we would want to start with tiday
(01:20:35 PM) skope: yeah
(01:22:05 PM) gadelat: I would like to ask who are the core members of CI council?
(01:24:36 PM) Dephenom left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
(01:25:22 PM) VictorCL left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
(01:25:48 PM) jlparry: gadelat: http://www.codeigniter.com/help/about
(01:28:13 PM) Kricir_ left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(01:35:17 PM) VictorCL [[email protected]] entered the room.
(01:36:15 PM) gadelat: As I see it, Andrey Andreev is the only regular contributor outside of documentation. Do you have any plans for enlarging this team of developers? E.g.any promising university students?
(01:37:53 PM) jlparry: You are correct. We would love to expand the team. Some of the council might be able to help with that.
(01:38:13 PM) Fiber^ left the room (quit: Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/).
(01:38:30 PM) jlparry: I have promising students, yes, but not a practical way to involve them given their student workload.
(01:39:20 PM) jlparry: I am working with my institute's bureaucracy to figure out a way around that, perhaps something similar to the UCOSP project I mentored this past term
(01:40:09 PM) jlparry: Ideally, I would get a few of my good students to spend a 4-5 week fulltime stint contributing, but that is still a ways off
(01:42:32 PM) jlparry: I think we are better off persuading another core contributor or two from the developer community
(01:43:08 PM) gadelat: How about offering them bachelors/masters topics regarding writing new f
(01:43:11 PM) Kricir [[email protected]] entered the room.
(01:43:16 PM) gadelat: *new CI features?
(01:43:25 PM) jlparry: i am pursuing that as well
(01:43:59 PM) jlparry: the problem is that open source contributions don't quite fit the "project model" that BCIT has ... real world, industry-sponsored.
(01:44:05 PM) jlparry: we are not considered industry :(
(01:44:39 PM) jlparry: i am battling to have us so considered, which would eliminate one roadblock
(01:45:30 PM) jlparry: if you are thinking of a separate course on open source development, i am pursuing that as well, but that is an even steeper uphill battle
(01:45:46 PM) reynierpm [[email protected]] entered the room.
(01:46:04 PM) jlparry: this is post-secondary education, and course outlines have to go through multiple stages of approval (read committees, ew) ... it doesn't happen overnight
(01:46:18 PM) reynierpm left the room.
(01:47:01 PM) jlparry: i think the situation will be different in a few years, but right now the institute is struggling to get its head wrapped around open source and how that fits in with it
(01:47:22 PM) jlparry: and I am championing the fight
(01:47:35 PM) jlparry: I might be ready to retire once it is done :-/
(01:49:33 PM) jimi_: :(
(01:50:02 PM) gadelat: Hm that is pretty bad, because as of right now I don't think there is enough development power to finish features that community asks for in reasonable time
(01:51:43 PM) jlparry: that is possible
(01:52:17 PM) jlparry: that's a big reason why we need to establish features, and prioritize them, and come up with a plan for making CI4 happen
(01:53:07 PM) jlparry: i am hoping that the project environment is better than it was a few years ago, and that we can attract a few more people to the core team. that would make a big difference
(01:53:14 PM) jimi_: jlparry, Have you thought about reaching out to graduate students?
(01:53:37 PM) jlparry: already done ... i have two i am pressing to join in a bigger way
(01:54:25 PM) jlparry: if i can rope two in, that gives me more ammunition to recruit more!
(01:55:20 PM) jlparry: but that isn't who i was thinking of a couple of lines above ... i would see the grads as more junior than a developer with years of experience, hopefully more than a few with CI
(01:56:01 PM) jimi_: ah ok
(01:56:07 PM) jlparry: that might actually not be fair to the two i am pitching to at the moment - they both have 5-10 years of experience
(01:57:09 PM) jimi_: ah ok
(01:57:24 PM) jimi_: well, i think you should have them work on the PHP project and fix the pow() implementation :P
(01:57:39 PM) jlparry: not gonna happen ... that's a different can of worms
(01:57:44 PM) jlparry: or is it a war of words
(01:57:51 PM) jlparry: :-/
(01:58:16 PM) jimi_: haha ya
(01:58:25 PM) jimi_: sucks because pow(0,0) returns 1 even though its undefined.
(01:59:17 PM) jlparry: talk to three mathmaticians and you might get three different answers/interpretations to that
(01:59:48 PM) jimi_: i am a mathematician :P
(01:59:57 PM) jlparry: ok, so four answers
(02:00:01 PM) jimi_: :P
(02:00:30 PM) jlparry: i would say that x^0 = 1 regardless of x
(02:00:51 PM) jimi_: 0! = 1 for convience
(02:01:33 PM) jimi_: But unfortunately 0^0 is not contiguous across the origin
(02:01:41 PM) jimi_: continuous*
(02:01:57 PM) jlparry: agreed
(02:04:21 PM) jlparry: Any more office hour kinda questions?
(02:04:42 PM) VictorCL: :D
(02:04:52 PM) gadelat: What is the planned process leading up to decision of CI 4 plan?
(02:05:56 PM) jlparry: we are collecting community input at present. not sure how long that will need to go on before a somewhat clear list of needed vs desireable features emerges
(02:07:15 PM) jlparry: at some point, we (the council) will collate the community feedback together with our ideas, and devise and publish a CI4 plan ... features with roadmap
(02:07:57 PM) jlparry: that might happen early in May, but I suspect June more likely **disclaimer: these are not commitments**
(02:09:10 PM) jlparry: some trends are clear in the community feedback (namespaces, modules), while others are less so (REST, composer)
(02:10:17 PM) jlparry: this is not something to bang out in an afternoon :)
(02:10:57 PM) jlparry: gadelat: sensible?
(02:11:09 PM) gadelat: Well before that happens, I believe community would like to hear opinions about presented CI 4 topics from CI council members. They are pretty quiet about this.
(02:11:42 PM) jlparry: on purpose ... we are trying not to influence things
(02:12:30 PM) jlparry: i have posted a few suggestions passed on to me, and tried to make it clear that i am not endorsing or promoting them, but instead raising them to preserve anonymity
(02:13:17 PM) jlparry: i'll confer with them and see if it would be appropriate to comment on some/all of the proposed features, though
(02:15:18 PM) jlparry: i think it is still early in the process ... it looks about 50 community members max have voted on any one of the proposed features.
(02:16:52 PM) batfastad left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
(02:17:55 PM) gadelat: Fair enough.
(02:18:07 PM) jlparry: ***************************************************************
(02:18:07 PM) jlparry: Thank you for joining us for the CodeIgniter Office Hour
(02:18:07 PM) jlparry: ***************************************************************
(02:18:08 PM) jimi_ left the room (quit: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
(02:18:44 PM) jlparry: The next "office hour" is scheduled for weds April 15, at 16:00 UTC
James Parry
Project Lead

Today's office hour has concluded. Not a lot of action! Transcript below:

(09:01:19 AM) jlparry: ***************************************************************
(09:01:19 AM) jlparry: Welcome to the CodeIgniter Office Hour
(09:01:19 AM) jlparry: This is Jim Parry, Project Lead
(09:01:19 AM) jlparry: We are here to answer any questions you have. Be nice!
(09:01:19 AM) jlparry: ***************************************************************
(09:01:53 AM) jlparry: zigmoo: the moment you have been waiting for ...
(09:06:22 AM) freshpixel__ [[email protected]] entered the room.
(09:08:52 AM) marcogmonteiro: hey freshpixel_  long time to see, all good?
(09:09:01 AM) marcogmonteiro: hey jlparry
(09:09:27 AM) freshpixel_ left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
marcogmonteiro MarkyC
(09:10:12 AM) jlparry: marcogmonteiro: hey, hey
(09:11:00 AM) VictorCL_: jlparry doing an IAmA
(09:11:09 AM) jlparry: ?
(09:11:09 AM) marcogmonteiro: hehehe kinda :D
(09:11:37 AM) marcogmonteiro: jlparry it's a reddit thing, where people go there and say, hello I am foo, ask me anything :P
(09:11:57 AM) marcogmonteiro left the room (quit: Quit: So long!).
(09:12:01 AM) jlparry: ah ... sorta, except a bit more focused
(09:12:05 AM) dnap [68eb0c52@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] entered the room.
(09:12:32 AM) VictorCL_: jlparry I have a question, after codeigniter 3 being long time under development and changed owner .. will stuff be moving faster now?
(09:13:10 AM) VictorCL_: what can we expect for CI future?
(09:13:36 AM) jlparry: i think stuff already is ... the community has re-engaged, we have lots of contributions (though we need more on the core team), and we are actively trying to move forward
(09:14:06 AM) jlparry: "short term" - CI4
(09:14:50 AM) jlparry: CI has a home, a loving family, and a mission ... should be around for a while :)
(09:15:37 AM) Croves left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
(09:18:50 AM) jlparry: if you are looking for a CI feature list, that is premature ... that is playing out on the forum http://forum.codeigniter.com/forum-27.html
(09:19:27 AM) jlparry: at the last office hour, i was asked if the council could provide some feedback in that forum, on where our heads are at and what we think of the proposed features
(09:19:35 AM) Daga left the room (quit: Quit: Pretend I said something witty...).
(09:19:54 AM) jlparry: we are in the middle of preparing that - should be posted in the next few days
(09:20:25 AM) D-Boy left the room (quit: Excess Flood).
(09:20:35 AM) D-Boy [~D-Boy@unaffiliated/cain] entered the room.
(09:22:52 AM) banghouse [[email protected]] entered the room.
(09:27:52 AM) banghouse left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
(09:28:22 AM) hsquared left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving.).
(09:32:08 AM) TheEddyFerreira [[email protected]] entered the room.
(09:32:18 AM) TheEddyFerreira left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(09:34:15 AM) VictorCL_: jlparry CI4 is already under development or still deciding on how is going to be?
(09:34:30 AM) jlparry: still in planning/playing stage
(09:35:34 AM) jlparry: it will likely be june before we are ready to look at serious development
(09:36:48 AM) VictorCL_: CI revival
(09:37:10 AM) VictorCL_: many people left CI because they though that the project was dead
(09:37:16 AM) jlparry: agreed
(09:37:27 AM) jlparry: or because they wanted the kitchen sink with their framework
(09:37:47 AM) VictorCL_: if we talk more about CI4 people will realize that new stuff coming up and they will get interested again
(09:37:54 AM) VictorCL_: jlparry :)
(09:37:57 AM) jlparry: hope so!
(09:38:35 AM) VictorCL_: we need to translate the userguide
(09:38:58 AM) jlparry: looks like about 60 have voted on something (or many things) on the CI4 subforum ... i am pretty sure that there are more developers than that using CI
(09:39:10 AM) VictorCL_: many people coming asking for a french/spanish userguide
(09:39:56 AM) jlparry: 196 pages, hmmm - how long would that take to translate, do you think?
(09:40:07 AM) jlparry: page = HTML page; some of those are quite lengthy
(09:40:32 AM) jlparry: bottom line - great idea, but we do not have the resources to do an initial translation, let alone keep multiple translations in sync :(
(09:40:40 AM) VictorCL_: yes I understand
(09:40:43 AM) VictorCL_: involve the comunity
(09:41:13 AM) jlparry: we are having better luck with the system message translations, but that is a lot less work
(09:41:28 AM) jlparry: even still, trying to coordinate and sync 35 translations is a challenge
(09:41:50 AM) VictorCL_: we could like .. google translate the 196 pages and then we just have to fix the errors from google translate ,much less work
(09:42:02 AM) VictorCL_: it wont be perfect, but is something
(09:42:37 AM) jlparry: i am not convinced that google translate would work ... you don't want code mangled, for instance
(09:43:29 AM) jlparry: actually, if google translate is "good enough", then why not use use https://translate.google.com/ to browse the manual?
(09:45:05 AM) jlparry: i just tried that, and the code examples are mangled. it changes key things, eg. $config becomes "$ Config" and $hooks becomes "$ Gancho"
(09:45:58 AM) MarkyC_ [[email protected]] entered the room.
(09:47:13 AM) MarkyC left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
(09:47:16 AM) nnyk_ left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
(09:48:57 AM) VictorCL_: yeah thats a problem
(09:49:14 AM) VictorCL_: gancho xD
(09:49:28 AM) VictorCL_: would be good if google translate had some kind of filters
(09:49:33 AM) lilsammy left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
(09:49:59 AM) jlparry: here ya go ... let's see what the general response is ... http://forum.codeigniter.com/thread-61437.html
(09:51:31 AM) jlparry: have you looked at the user guide source? it's in RST and the HTML is generated by sphinx
(09:52:03 AM) VictorCL_: spanish
(09:52:06 AM) VictorCL_: many spanish people asking
(09:53:38 AM) jlparry: agreed - i just used a couple of examples, and i didn't want to sound like i was asking your question for you. i have inquiries about french & persian
(09:54:18 AM) banghouse [[email protected]] entered the room.
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(10:06:14 AM) jlparry: *****************************************************************************************************
(10:06:14 AM) jlparry: Thank you, VictorCL & marcogmonteiro (briefly), for joining me for the CodeIgniter Office Hour
(10:06:14 AM) jlparry: *****************************************************************************************************
James Parry
Project Lead

great to hear that man. Smile

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