Something bad about CI

[eluser]oddman[/eluser]
You're taking what I'm saying to extremes. As I've said before, I'm saying you need to learn lower-level languages in order to do your job as a web developer properly.

I think the author's original point was remembering how to do things with PHP and their favourite sql engine, whatever that may be, and it got skewed on the way.

If you want to learn a framework without knowing the language - by all means go ahead. I'd like to see how long you last. Regardless of framework, if you don't know how to do the basics, you're not going to make it, period.

Let's take database abstraction as an example. Lots of frameworks now are offering easier ways to do inserts, updates.etc. and this is great, for the most part as it allows you to do your job quickly. However, if you forget (or don't know) how to do SQL - locating those future bottlenecks are going to be a hell of a time-consuming role for you.

[eluser]gvillavizar[/eluser]
Woa, wait there...I said "bad" in the good sense (I swear!). That was a little joke.

You see, the problem is, I have done all my recent projects in CI which is great because it let's me save a lot of time. But what about when I have to go back to my old projects, build in the basic PHP4 with no framework whatsoever?

Now, when I have to do form validation, it's a pain in the @$$ because I'm used to CI's easy way of doing it (for example).

What I'm saying is, saving time and building great stuff is excellent, but let's not forget the core. I'm not talking about C < C++, they are different languages, but CI is a PHP Framework. So let's not forget PHP when working with CI.

[eluser]oddman[/eluser]
bingo

[eluser]Phil Sturgeon[/eluser]
I have found that using CI has made my native PHP much better. Compare my native PHP now to my native PHP pre-CI and the difference is amazing. It is all perfect OOP and much cleaner, faster and more effective.

You need to take what CI teaches you and apply it elsewhere. If you cant apply the coding methods itself or you dont know how, do what I do and steal it. I have managed to integrate the CI form_validation class into my day-jobs legacy systems which has replaced my need to work with the old Smarty validation, THANK GOD!

TBH I do not know anybody using native mysql commands and the like. Everyone uses some form of abstraction layer for things like that, if it is not CI's active record it is Creole, ADODB, etc. And as has already been said, it only takes a quick google or flick through of your reference book to remember.

If you did it once, at least you remember what needs to be done even if you forget the exact syntax.

[eluser]Dam1an[/eluser]
[quote author="Phil Sturgeon" date="1240428428"]I have found that using CI has made my native PHP much better. Compare my native PHP now to my native PHP pre-CI and the difference is amazing. It is all perfect OOP and much cleaner, faster and more effective.
[/quote]

Although I'm sure CI helped, your old code just looks bad compared to your current code cause you're a much better developer then you where before, its the same with everyone.

[eluser]Phil Sturgeon[/eluser]
Not at all. While I understand the effect of ageing code, it was CI that helped leap forward. By following its layout suggestions it has injected the same OOP structure and general design patterns into native PHP. Meaning whenever I am working on the terrible legacy systems at the 9-5 it still feels like im using CI.

[eluser]oddman[/eluser]
[quote author="Phil Sturgeon" date="1240459460"]Not at all. While I understand the effect of ageing code, it was CI that helped leap forward. By following its layout suggestions it has injected the same OOP structure and general design patterns into native PHP. Meaning whenever I am working on the terrible legacy systems at the 9-5 it still feels like im using CI.[/quote]

I totally agree here. My development standards went up ridiculously thanks to the Ruby/Rails community.

If you want to improve more, pick up other languages/frameworks. I highly recommend playing with at least one OOP language, especially one that pushes good standards.

[eluser]fMertins[/eluser]
Hi everyone,

And just remembering, you can use just a few features from the framework instead all of them, ie: I love make SELECT statements and don´t use method chaining.

[eluser]k2zs[/eluser]
[quote author="Phil Sturgeon" date="1240428428"]I have found that using CI has made my native PHP much better. Compare my native PHP now to my native PHP pre-CI and the difference is amazing. It is all perfect OOP and much cleaner, faster and more effective.

You need to take what CI teaches you and apply it elsewhere. If you cant apply the coding methods itself or you dont know how, do what I do and steal it. I have managed to integrate the CI form_validation class into my day-jobs legacy systems which has replaced my need to work with the old Smarty validation, THANK GOD!

TBH I do not know anybody using native mysql commands and the like. Everyone uses some form of abstraction layer for things like that, if it is not CI's active record it is Creole, ADODB, etc. And as has already been said, it only takes a quick google or flick through of your reference book to remember.

If you did it once, at least you remember what needs to be done even if you forget the exact syntax.[/quote]
I know this is an old post but I have to agree with Phil,

Prior to starting with CI just a few months ago I thought I knew a good deal about PHP. Truth be known I had never written a function or a class on my own. I was totally dependent on DreamWeaver CS3 to make all of my database connections and write all of my database calls.

Since starting with CI I have abandoned CS3 all together and now use a real php editor (PhpED from NuSphere) and write all of my own code. If I had to build something from scratch without using a framework like CI I would still favor writing classes to do what I needed.

Bottom line is that CI didn't "dumb down" my knowledge, it enhanced it 10 fold.
Thanks CI