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All PHP MVC Collaboration
#1

[eluser]gearond[/eluser]
All PHP MVC Collaboration

I am starting an informal, fixed time duration, group of all the PHP MVC designers. My first wish, if someone can represent CodeIgniter, is to discuss standardized MVC interfaces and services, at the most general level possible.

The intent is to brainstorm and then promote the simplest designed, but most comprehensive and useful set of interfaces between the MVC model elements; the User; push and pull services; full page vs. Ajax widget/page area requests; libraries for security, data filtering, Authorisation, templating, databases, versioning control, caching, internationalisation, and other libraries; and other behavioral or glue code necessary to construct a site.

All PHP MVC designers will be invited. A short list of the PHP MVC designers is at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller. At this time, the following initial interactions are planned:

1/ A questionnaire.
2/ Questionnaire results shared with all participants.
2/ Questionnaire publishing
3/ Request for and rating of subjects
4/ Sharing and publishing of topics
5/ Several week/month email list discussion, on top 5-10 subjects,
(probably not published)
6/ Scheduled live chat(text) with whiteboard.
7/ Create summary of Collaboration.
8/ Publication of Summary.


Please ask in your community who is the appropriate person for this and have them contact me.

I believe that a better understanding of the MVC paradigm, its place in a web application, better MVC development, and better understanding and utilisation by end users will happen. Plus, we might have fun :-)

Sincerely, Dennis Gearon.
#2

[eluser]xwero[/eluser]
It seems to me you try to build your own framework and don't want to do the research.

Different frameworks have different conventions. Frameworks are not going to adopt the simplest design because it is the simplest design. If even the coding styles are different how are you going to make MVC based frameworks adopt a unified essential codebase? First point which will cause long discussions that go nowhere is php4 support.

And i'm not sure where version control fits in the picture? Version control is not a part of the framework AFAIK.
#3

[eluser]gearond[/eluser]
It's possible that I was not clear. I do that every day :-)
It's the INTERFACES between the model, the view, the controller, etc, that I would standardize, NOT the code within them.

Yes PHP4/5 issue is an issue. But again, with a standaized interface, say, a data structure format for passing in/out between the elements, anyone can use either OOP or function based desgn. The PHP4/5 issue goes away, heck, even namespaces goes away.

The goal would be approach doing MVCs like the Open Source world does software: Instead of microsoft monlithic designs, use purely component based, mix match. Don't like the switchyard/controller in one MVC, put another project's in. Want such and such ACL for auth and not an RBAC scheme that only used a file on the system disk but the rest of the MVC rocks? Use one from somewhre else or code your own.Want User IO cleaned in the controller and not the MOdel and using a different library? Again, put a controller in that does that and wrap the library you choose in standardized wrapper.

No single MVC or framework of any kind does it all, or to everyone's preference. You kind of commented on that. My idea is that we the users could more easily shop for the best parts of each. And genetic evolution would take place : The best compnenets would survive.

The goal would be discussion. No one NEED change anything. But if a standard for having the options available stated above could come from the MVC designer community as a result of the discussion, all the better. Since this will be highly moderated, the only thing lost is the time to answer some questions, and participants can learn what's on each other's minds in this field. There will be little opportunity to argue over php4/5, namespaces, OOP vs Functional, coding styles, etc.

Participation is voluntary, but open only to the senior designer or a representative they choose.
#4

[eluser]Dam1an[/eluser]
I'm also kind of sceptical about this, and can't really see it working.
Even though you just want to have common interfaces, it will reduce the flexability that you have with the rest of the framework.
You would also need to standardize stuff such as config... that wouldn't work, not only because each framework has its own way of representing config settings, but some use settings which others don't (eg CI has much less config stuff then some others)... Alternativly, you'd have config files for each framework you've taken something from (or have the configs embedded at the top of the library which complicates making changes)

Also, the framework founders want users to use the entire stack, as its a lot more integrated (yes, even more so then when using interfaces)

Also, there would be a problem with views, as some frameworks force a templating engine on you, others don't

Also, each framework has its own base classes, so I might have to load base controllers from several frameworks throughout my app

Have I made my point yet? Tongue
#5

[eluser]gearond[/eluser]
Yes, all the issues raised are valid. They all prevent the approach that is my goal of discussing. But as a concept, what do you think? Not how Code Igniter should change itself, but as the architecture of an MVC friendly application and application flexible MVC? If you were reinventing the wheel? Forget CodeIgnniter for the moment, (and only the moment - it's good stuff!)
#6

[eluser]Dam1an[/eluser]
The thing is, in order to conform to your proposed interfaces, almost every framework out there will have to change... good luck convincing them to do that... and for what benefit of the developers? They want you to use the entire stack, not just a single part of it




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