How to get end user to guide the development?

[eluser]Kyle Johnson[/eluser]
Who is the author of the book? I am very interested in reading more on that type of stuff.

My issue is they give me some of what they want "that moment" but it ultimately comes down to me to understand the rest of the equation. They say something like, "I want to be able to generate billing reports" and I'm saying, "Ok, what is on those reports? Where does the underlying information come from?" From there, I'm usually met with somewhat vacant stares. Their sample data that they provide is basically an invoice with a total cost on it. I usually have to dig around a lot to determine where the information comes from.

I mean, are there some simple questions or something that I'm missing from these meetings? I try to ask them simple questions regarding the reports they want generated, but it really feels like they don't even know where the information comes from.

Maybe it's time for a mutiny. Haha!

[eluser]Colin Williams[/eluser]
If you aren't in a position to define how the project is managed and you get paid hourly, why the fuss?

[eluser]Kyle Johnson[/eluser]
Because I'm the only one working on the project, and I'm in a salaried position, which means no matter how much work (or not) I put into it I get paid the same.

What I am really looking for from this discussion is some useful techniques that I can use with the 'client' to make them give me the right information I need to produce the results they are looking for. Let's say the client has a end goal, but doesn't know how to get there? What should I do to guide them down that path to the goal? I ask a lot of questions and take notes from them, and I've created a database containing over 70 tables (minimum number to keep track of the information they need to keep track of) and now when it comes to the forms and reports, they don't seem to know what they need.

[eluser]tomcode[/eluser]
You have a human problem, so :

can't You ask someone (responsible of the effort produced) how to act in such a situation in Your company

or :

explain Your situation to Your collegues, ask them for help

Do not code before You haven't established a satisfying communication flow.

EDIT : You need to be firm, stick to what You consider neccessary, be well prepared

[eluser]Kyle Johnson[/eluser]
The people I get the most help from are the end users. I flew to Portland to meet with a helpdesk of a company that would be using a portion of the portal and got a lot of good feedback from them. That has guided my programming for a while now. I am thinking I should just skip management. HAHA!

My manager explains to the upper management that I need more information to get what I'm doing done, but even he has zero programming background, so he isn't able to accurately convey what I need.

I wish I knew the "Do not code before communication flow" guideline when the project started. This is my first adventure into writing an entire application, so everything is new to me. I'm going with what I think I need, but I know I'm missing a lot, since I haven't had any former experience with it.

In the future, I will try to explain to them much more firmly what I need from them. I can't work with one sentence descriptions of the data needed.

[eluser]phpserver[/eluser]
I have had a problem of that nature too.I asked and wrote down what the client wanted.What i did is i drew a picture of what the app could look like and i showed it to the client.I have done this with some success.What i have found out is non-programmers have most likely seen a working version of the software or have something like that in mind.In one case i asked a client what he wanted the tabs for in an app and this is what he said."I want it to be like the new Microsoft access,with projects and tasks.I want when i click on a project,i should see all the tasks associated with it,milestones and the people assigned to the projects and tasks".

I thought the poor soul wanted a version of Microsoft access online just to find out that he wanted a custom made time sheet web application!.See some simple illustration works.

[eluser]Kyle Johnson[/eluser]
I will ask them (again) for illustrations of what they want. Thank you for the advice. A lot of the people have worked with some of the super great database applications like Great Plains, or something similar to it. They are expecting me to create every piece of that application without me ever seeing it. I guess they just have high expectations for me.

[eluser]Kyle Johnson[/eluser]
Oh, I did get some positive feedback from our two lead engineers last week. They wanted, instead of a pulldown menu, a dynamic search that the user could enter text and it finds what they are looking for. So I looked into some AJAX stuff, and got that setup (even implemented it into my form library).