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Do you wish to see an ORM feature in CI 2.x ?
#11

[eluser]_xammax_[/eluser]
[quote author="Rui Lima" date="1281212361"]Doctrine is great![/quote]

Propel too :-)

ps. but I'd like CI w/o ORM depencies ...
#12

[eluser]Rui Lima[/eluser]
But do what is already being done... Maybe there are other things needed, no?
#13

[eluser]ChiefChirpa[/eluser]
Firstly in regard to the actual question, it would probably be good if there was some sort of offical ORM feature available, the problem with third party stuff is you are always relying on a developer who may (quite understandably) drop it any time, you only have to look through ignited code / the wiki to see how many plugins, classes, etc have been dropped.

Secondly on ORM in general, I've generally found it to be pretty pointless, for the following reasons:

1 - Some of the places I've worked at generally target specific types of clients / sites (ecommerce / fairly standard company websites, etc) and they usually end up building a CMS that can handle 95% of the stuff, so often have little (sometimes nothing) to do when it comes to queries / database on many projects.

2 - Conversely I've also worked at a couple of places that do few, but often large, high traffic sites and found ORM to be a pain in the arse, when you have a site that requires performance, not simply because it adds a bit overhead, not even because sometimes queries are not written in the most efficient fashion, but because when you have to deal with denormalisation, sharding, etc some ORMs cannot handle it at all and the rest make it absolutely painful.

Also remember that not everyone that uses a framework is a "developer", there are quite a few large sites (and millions of not so large sites) that started out with some guy programming the thing himself, I know three people that built their sites with CI, ORM would be pointless for them.

But just because I don't use it much, I see some do, so I think an official ORM would be good for those.
#14

[eluser]mikelexp[/eluser]
What I'd like is a list of featured/recommended ORM libraries, so new users are sure that they're getting the good stuff instead of having to read lots of forums posts and "ORM A vs. ORM B" discussions.

Same goes for some basic libraries like templates, authentication, etc. Maybe CI should have some kind of custom built download, where you could choose your ORM, your Auth lib, or none at all.

That would be really nice for new users, so they don't think that CI has less features just because they've read that it can't do ORM like other frameworks do.
#15

[eluser]Phil Sturgeon[/eluser]
I really, genuinely could not give less of a damn about ORM and so do plenty of other developers.

In fact, Pascal Kriete - one of the smartest developers I know and one of the EllisLab team - recently tweeted this:

Quote:Spent all night looking at ORMs. Conclusion: "meh". Not really convinced by any of them.

We won't be seeing ORM in CI any time soon, it is always something that should be included as an optional extra. Just because other frameworks have it and it's a new "funky buzz thing" doesn't mean CI needs it. Smile
#16

[eluser]Phil Sturgeon[/eluser]
Templates however? And Caching? And Curl? And Migrations? And Unzip?

Those should all be in the core and I won't rest until they are. :coolsmirk:
#17

[eluser]Tom Schlick[/eluser]
[quote author="Phil Sturgeon" date="1288100889"]Templates however? And Caching? And Curl? And Migrations? And Unzip?

Those should all be in the core and I won't rest until they are. :coolsmirk:[/quote]

Im with you on those in the core. I really wish we had more ability to nominate things to be committed to the core but that doesn't seem the way EL wants to go...
#18

[eluser]Phil Sturgeon[/eluser]
I threw up this poll just for poops and giggles to gauge interest.

http://twtpoll.com/r/t7vaq0

I've been writing all my code to conform to EllisLab syntax stylings and HOPEFULLY Unzip will be accepted soon. Migrations though... if that got into CI 2.0 it would give people a real code boner and might give people even more interest in the framework! Smile
#19

[eluser]WanWizard[/eluser]
Let's keep CI light and fast.

I agree ORM has no place in the core code, but for some projects it is a very welcome feature, if implemented well, since it greatly reduces development time.

I do feel modularity should be on the list. Any decent size CI app needs it, and due to the fact that current implementations are 'bolted on', it is very difficult / complicated / impossible to write generic 3rd party libs that require module awareness.

A template libary for example is one of them. To be able to load views from modules, it now has to be aware of CI application views, Modular Extensions views, Matchbox views, Modular CI views, etc...
#20

[eluser]Phil Sturgeon[/eluser]
[quote author="WanWizard" date="1288107989"]Let's keep CI light and fast.

I agree ORM has no place in the core code, but for some projects it is a very welcome feature, if implemented well, since it greatly reduces development time.

I do feel modularity should be on the list. Any decent size CI app needs it, and due to the fact that current implementations are 'bolted on', it is very difficult / complicated / impossible to write generic 3rd party libs that require module awareness.

A template libary for example is one of them. To be able to load views from modules, it now has to be aware of CI application views, Modular Extensions views, Matchbox views, Modular CI views, etc...[/quote]

Matchbox is dead, I only RARELY hear about anybody using it. Modular Separation is still out and about for a few people that haven't switched to Modular Extensions yet. Either way MS and ME both work the same as far as a Template library is concerned.

So that only really leaves ME and Modular CI.

Something like ME would be greatly appreciated in CI but it has such a long way to go before it is anywhere NEAR the EllisLab Coding Standard that even if they had the interest it would take a lot of work. Sad Would be nice though.




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