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What's Happening Now?
#31

[eluser]wiredesignz[/eluser]
@phil, Your opinion of yourself is just too damn high buddy. I doubt if Ellislab will "entertain" very much from you.

Quote:FuelPHP is essentially taking the best ideas from both. I have no problem with making a framework that is “CodeIgniter but 5% better” or “Kohana, but 5% better” as it is already 5% better.

Is that not spouting off?

I don't know why you keep bringing this up. Kohana was entirely rewritten as of version 2.0 get your facts straight.
#32

[eluser]Developer13[/eluser]
[quote author="wiredesignz" date="1288330217"]Your opinion of yourself is just too damn big buddy. I doubt if Ellislab will "entertain" very much from you.

Quote:FuelPHP is essentially taking the best ideas from both. I have no problem with making a framework that is “CodeIgniter but 5% better” or “Kohana, but 5% better” as it is already 5% better.

Is that not spouting off?[/quote]

I think he got you there, Phil.
#33

[eluser]Phil Sturgeon[/eluser]
How so? We all know CodeIgniter rocks. Add in 5% of extra goodness and it's mathematical better!

No more Controller/Model/Library conflicts, no more GET munging and full autoloading throughout. That by itself is clearly better than core CI, but nothing we couldn't get working if the team got on board with those ideas.
#34

[eluser]Developer13[/eluser]
How does one turn your spicket off, Phil?
#35

[eluser]Phil Sturgeon[/eluser]
I have literally no idea what that means. Enjoy this pointless flame war you have started yourself, I'll be asleep.
#36

[eluser]Alfredor[/eluser]
Is not only him, and you are pretty much being offensive and impolite, Developer13. Those of us that support the idea that codeigniter "is not going on the right path" may agree that we need changes, and we need them now!. It has been 14 months of a cold freezing winter, I only have 1 year working with CI but I must admit that 5 months after I started using it, CI started getting smaller for my capabilities. If you see that facts are not being created you must create them yourself in order to give some hope to those that are waiting. I'm what you can call an EL "fanboy" but that does not mean that I don't have own thinking.
#37

[eluser]Zack Kitzmiller[/eluser]
This kind of stuff really isn't necessary.

People fork projects, all the time. There is no reason to attack Dan/Phil/Crew for it. The entire concept of GitHub revolves around "copying" code you're not happy with, and making changes to suit your own needs. That's why it's open source.

If Kohona was a closed source project, and Phil and crew stole the code, made changes, and released them as open source, then you would have a valid point. Even twitter's FlockDB is mostly Mongo (or is it couch? I can't keep my NoSQL dbs straight), forked, modified, and re-released with ideas from several other systems included. There are lots of ideas from lots of frameworks that going into all other frameworks. And the code in Fuel from Kohona is properly credited as far as I can tell.

There are definite issues with CI, most of which revolve around the PHP4 support. So I happily welcome "competition" into the field. Regardless. All of these personal attacks really need to stop. They are non-constructive and don't help to solve anything.
#38

[eluser]theprodigy[/eluser]
Just to put my two cents in:

I really don't see why there is so much complaining. EllisLabs is a business. They are going to put priority on the products that pay the bills. They decided to be nice and offer CodeIgniter to us for completely free. How is that a bad thing? IT'S FREE!!

Where does everyone get off thinking that a free product SHOULD be updated/upgraded within a certain time limit?

So you had to spend a little time fixing a bug or two in the core code. At least you didn't have to write the core code from scratch, and you didn't have to pay for the code you modified!

I'm sure EllisLabs will get around to making 2.0 available whenever they see fit. They are not obligated to do so. They are being nice and generous and just completely giving it to you at no charge.

Please, for the love of God, stop the whining, stop the bickering, and stop the fighting. There is no point in it, and it's not going to make EllisLabs speed up.

Don't get me wrong. I'm looking forward to 2.0 becoming there newest "release". But I don't see any point in complaining that it hasn't been updated in awhile. 1.7.2 works just fine. So what if I add a few libraries here or there. That's what makes CI so great. It's easy to add 3rd party libraries.

There will always be 3rd party libraries to make your job easier. It doesn't mean EllisLabs has to put it into core. Would it be nice? Sure, depending on the library, but EllisLabs shouldn't have to, just to make people think the next version is better.

As mentioned earlier, it's a FRAMEWORK. It's meant to be extended.
#39

[eluser]nuwanda[/eluser]
[quote author="theprodigy" date="1288345933"]Where does everyone get off thinking that a free product SHOULD be updated/upgraded within a certain time limit?[/quote]

I'm new to CI but this seems to nail it. If nothing more happened with CI, you'd still have a great framework to use.

Fact is, you can build any size site with CI, and conquer the world.

I use CI because it abstracts a lot of mundane tasks away. I could do it all in raw PHP but what a pain it would be.

I hope--and expect--that CI will continue to be enhanced, but I'm not hung up on having all my needs catered to. I'm proud to be a programmer and I realise that CI is just one of my programming tools.

That said, EllisLab must know that it's opensource efforts bring in a lot of paying business. I'm seriously considering EE for my clients over Wordpress. And I doubt I would have thought about doing that if not for CI.

I'd be happy with a solid CI development program that values substance over flash.

Further--and I hope someone is paying attention--if EL asked or required all users of CI forums to pay $10 per year to use these forums, I'd pay. I don't know if this model has been tried in the OS community but it seems like a fair idea to me. I'm working on a site that hopefully will make me some good money. And that's from free software.

Let's say that there are 5,000 regular users of CI and that they rely on this forum to solve important problems, well, that pays for one person at $50k to be dedicated to CI. Seems like a good deal to me.
#40

[eluser]Jelmer[/eluser]
This is becomming a straw-man discussion.

I don't think anyone is demanding anything of EllisLab. Many of us, me included, are very gratefull for the work EllisLab did with CI. Phil probably first among them, he's almost made a carreer of calling people on their BS who are going overboard with their current critisism of CI or EllisLab. But that doesn't reach this discussion, here he's become a straw-man for some people who seem to think that all or any critisism is the same as hate.

What for me this all boils down to is that CI has been pretty much stale for the last 2 years. The last major release was 1.7 in september 2008 and the last release was last year. While a slow release cycle is a good thing for a framework: That's not a slow release cycle, that's no cycle at all.
Having said that I'm not demanding that EL does more, but it does mean that if I want to move forward with new projects I'm going to look very carefully at using essentially a PHP4 product. Yes there's a PHP5 base, but it doesn't change anything in a meaningfull way.

For people like me the point is that we've been using CI for years and we love developing in it. It still will work fine for many projects and I would still recommend it to anyone starting out. But for me the stalled development is a reason to start looking elsewhere and I hate leaving both the framework and the community.
I also believe that this is why others have felt they needed to voice their opinion, not to shit on EllisLab but in hopes of getting things going again.

For some it's already taken too long and they've decided to start their own framework. Which is fine in any case but has gotten very strange and hyperbolic negative feedback from some people here. EL employees not least among them, though that's pretty much cleared up by now as far as I know.

I'll be using CI for a long time to come as many of my current projects are based on it. But CI's future has been unclear for a long time, and now there's CI2 but it's more a CI1.8 and I don't see any big strides made soon.
Moving forward that means for me I'll probably move to something else for new projects. Hopefully the new FuelPHP if that project proves to be reliable. I really like what they're doing and it's probably an easier transition for me.
But that's not because I'm demanding anything of EllisLab and it's not because I suddenly hate CI. When you're a developer you need to keep moving with the times and PHP5 is 6 years old (which already makes it trailing by a lot, and not really moving with). If I kept using a base that's limited by PHP4 I'd stall as much as CI. I voice this because I regret potentially leaving. Certainly not to talk shit about EllisLab because I'm still very very gratefull for the development basis they gave me for the last couple of years.




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