Reactor vs Core

[eluser]Crimp[/eluser]
This thread is amazing. It's clearly a personal choice which code base to use. The fact that there is going to be more than one or two releases to consider in the future seems to have thrown some people into ad hominem tantrums. Seriously, you guys must be emailing the creators of GIT on a daily basis with cease-and-desist demands. As Daniel Moore pointed out above, this is clearly a win-win situation. There's going to be alpha, beta and stable states in more flavors and it really is up to the individual users of CodeIgniter to work with the offering they most desire and/or are comfortable with. It is also worth remembering one of the undeniable strengths of the framework - it only loads what is needed. So even if one must have, say, partial caching (presuming it becomes part of Reactor), it does not require the use of anything else that is not wanted. Many thanks to the Reactor team for taking on the positions and the work. I certainly look forward to your repo going public.

[eluser]Phil Sturgeon[/eluser]
Somebody sent me a link earlier which took me to this old post from Dennis Rasmussen.

[quote author="Dennis Rasmussen" date="1288373360"]Easy solution: Promote a couple of new forum moderators and start using the help coming from the community.
There are so many great libraries and things that I think should be included in the CI core.

The forum is flooded with spam and questions being repeated again and again. This could be solved with a better forum structure.

I'm so happy to see the latest blog and the frontpage quote change by EL (however no more "kick-ass" is sad though).
Hopefully this brings us into a new year with a bit more focus on the CI community by EL.

It is REALLY not that hard to keep the community happy.
Few changes to satisfy so many people, yet nothing is happening and hasn't been for like what.. 2 years now?

Edit: And to the people saying that this is FREE and this is a FRAMEWORK.
Sure... but just because a car can get going, doesn't mean that the car is both fast and efficient by not keeping up with the rest of the world.

CodeIgniter needs some fixes.
It needs some additions.
It needs some rethinking.
And it definitely needs a new community policy.[/quote]

That is exactly the mentality we all have, described perfectly.

[eluser]Vheissu[/eluser]
[quote author="rlindauer" date="1294295647"][quote author="CoolGoose" date="1294262826"]Why should I have to add every single damn time the same damn libraries that do the same function to compensate for what's missing in the damn core ?

Ever heard of DRY ?[/quote]

Is it that hard to maintain your own package that includes all the libraries, etc, that you use on a regular basis? Why force that extra weight on those of us who don't care for most 3rd party libraries, or have our own company libraries, etc?

You don't need to download CI every single time you do a project. It's not updated that often. Keep a local copy, with the extra libraries and basic config already to go. Then use that as a base. Save yourself some time.

Ever heard of DRY ?

lol[/quote]

It might seem like an easy thing to have a pre configured version of CI ready for new applications, but when you're using over 4 libraries which is very easy to do so, then updating those libraries, making changes and then dealing with new CI updates becomes a nightmare.

I can see how having everything ready to go would be best, that way if any changes were made you would be confident knowing all required files that need updates or complete rewrites would be taken care of for you.

[eluser]Pschilly[/eluser]
I am quite surprised this thread has reached 4 pages... Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their choice. If you think that this is a "bad" idea, so be it. If you think it's a great idea, so be it. This constant, for lack of a better way to put it: B*** fest, is getting old.

People need to calm down, and just look at it from a logical standpoint... Don't like it fine, but there comes a time where we have to go back to the basics... If you don't have something constructive to say don't say anything at all... These forums are no place for public bashing of each other.

These forums are a community all looking for generally the same thing... A decent, efficient, and useful framework to base our projects on.

As many have said before, there is no iron fist saying you absolutely must 100% use the newest versions. Use what version you want, End of Story.

[eluser]Daniel Moore[/eluser]
Warning! Daniel Moore has posted an inordinately long post.

[quote author="Phil Sturgeon" date="1294326815"]
[quote author="Daniel Moore" date="1294306342"]due to my aversion to the $_GET support[/quote]

What is the downside to GET string support? You can totally ignore it, it just mean $this->input->get() actually works (when and if you use it). It doesn't need you to change anything in your application, it just means if you want those variables they are there. :coolsmile:
[/quote]
I don't like the way it looks in the URL. That's why I love CodeIgniter. Nice and clean. However, it's not a deal breaker for me. I don't use all the helpers provided in CodeIgniter, so that's the same difference.

[quote author="Phil Sturgeon" date="1294326815"]
[quote author="Dennis Rasmussen" date="1294322205"]And as Daniel Moores wonderful post says, having to upgrade/patch more than once a month is just awful for production (which I still believe we have to unless you really are careful about this) considering all the changes you want to make in one go[/quote]

Who said you will need to patch more than once a month? And who said we are making loads of changes? The last 5 commits I made were bug fixes!
[/quote]

Hold on there, Dennis. I never said it was awful for production. I just said I don't like to do it, mostly because of time constraints. I only work part time doing this, because I have a full-time job raising my family. (I'm a stay at home Dad, and wouldn't have it any other way. I like the wife going to work and me staying at home taking care of children, cooking, cleaning, etc.)

As far as having to patch often, I know that's not what is necessary. I initially started with CodeIgniter and downloaded my first copy on March 7, 2008 (1.6.1). I did my first upgrade on January 28, 2009 (1.7.0), and my next upgrade was December 6, 2010 (1.7.3), at which time I noticed on the forums (I had been gone for a while) that 2.0 was available for download. I read about it, and thought about it (not upgrading any of my sites yet, because I was considering whether to jump to 2.0), and then read Phil's blog post about how to make the upgrade to 2.0. Talk about easy, especially if you have an editor than can do reg_ex replacements in all files in all subdirectories. It took me 10 minutes to set up a script file to make the changes for me (I decided to write a PHP Controller script instead of using my editor) and it whipped through all the files faster than I could blink twice. A couple of "move-by-hand" items to proper directories, and I was in business. Everything was working perfectly with 2.0. It was quite painless. I set up my script to point to each of my sites (they are all on the same server, since I host them) and all of them were upgraded very quickly and painlessly.

Now, I will be keeping up with bug-fix patches. I've got my desktop system to automatically update my "working copy" on a daily basis, and occasionally I will go in and see what has been changed, to see if I need to work those changes into my "development copy" (the copy I have set up the way I work, with my own libraries, etc). As long as the changes don't affect the way the code currently works, then I'll probably issue updates to the sites.

When Reactor is made available for cloning, I'll probably do the same there. I would love to get a working copy to see for myself what is going on with it. Especially since I'm at a point where I plan to set up a few new libraries that I've been wanting to do for a while. Having a baby that's turning 1 year old in 3 days has kept me too busy this last year to develop the new stuff I've wanted to do, but she's getting to that point where I can now start back again.

[quote author="Dennis Rasmussen" date="1294322205"][quote author="Phil Sturgeon" date="1294296426"]Seriously, how are people giving this such bad press?[/quote]
Because of you Phil - haven't you figured that out yet?
[/quote]
I don't like our mail carrier, but I still read the mail and pay the bills he brings. That just doesn't sound like a good argument to me. To each his own. As for me, I will do as my mother taught me, "As much as it is possible to do, that is, the part that is under your control, live at peace with everyone you can." (Yes, she taught me many things from the Bible that has made me a better person.) I must admit that I'm not doing too well at the moment, because I actually responded to that.

[quote author="Dennis Rasmussen" date="1294322205"]
considering all the changes you want to make in one go (you honestly going to believe that it's going to be bug free every patch?
[/quote]

CodeIgniter core that has been released has never been bug free either. The point is, the developer should work diligently enough to make sure, as far as is possible, that is it as bug free as possible. We have more people looking for bugs on Reactor/Core. Every bug that is found in the core will be fixed in Reactor first. Before, only 2 people were doing bug fixes. Now, an entire community can submit bug fixes. Will it be 100% bug free? Perhaps not, but it will be better than it has been in the past. How can it not?

I'm beginning to think that perhaps I should be keeping up with Reactor. I've pretty much talked myself into it here, although I still probably won't change my sites very often. If you guys put in an auth system, forum, etc. then I'd have to pass. But the enhancements I've seen listed so far seem reasonable, as they "add to" the functionality without forcing you do do things differently.

[quote author="Pschilly" date="1294345052"]If you think that this is a "bad" idea, so be it. If you think it's a great idea, so be it. [/quote]
Thank you. As I'm out of space for posting, I'll stop my rant now myself.

[eluser]bluemonsta[/eluser]
My 2 cents worth.

Everybody stop whinging and wait to see what the Reactor guys come up with. The community was adamant that it wanted change, and finally they will have it.

If you don't like it, stay with the Core. If you want to see some new stuff in CI wait for the reactor build and get involved, commit some code and let it be evaluated and maybe included in a future release.

Hell at the end of the day fork CI yourself and do whatever you need to do to make your self happy.

If you don't like it, use the community tools to get involved, get on uservoice, show the team that you have some credible arguments / code to include, just don't sit back and snipe.

Quite frankly it beggars belief that there are people who would rather spend time scrapping in the forums instead of doing something useful.

The 'tall poppy' syndrome is alive and well in the CI community and that is bad.

The six guys tasked with reactor are to my understanding not being paid for doing this. They are giving up their time and effort to make CI better for all of us, so they deserve our support, and if you don't like what they are doing either put up, shut up or f**k off. People who give up their time when they could be doing paid work to put bread on the table should not be vilified in the public CI forums.

I can 100% guarantee that I won't agree with some of the things they are doing, but hey I'm an adult first, a php programmer second. Nothing is stopping me from forking their code and applying the fixes / patches / crap that I want to see in a framework.

I suspect that a large portion of the community supports the good work you guys are doing, they just aren't vocal enough about it here in the forums. So for all those people I'd like to say a big thank you and wish you every success with the Reactor build of CI. I make a living building apps, and CI powers a great many of them, I truly stand on the shoulders of giants.

[eluser]Eric Barnes[/eluser]
The reactor is now open so you guys can see what is going on:

http://ellislab.com/forums/viewthread/177924/

https://bitbucket.org/ellislab/codeigniter-reactor/