How do we get CodeIgniter back to the PHP framework of choice?

[eluser]skunkbad[/eluser]
[quote author="treenef" date="1403893756"]Thank you for the in depth reply, do you have any CMS, if so is it possible to see some screenshots?[/quote]

No CMS. If I'm going to need a CMS for a project, I install my framework side-by-side with WordPress and use mod_rewrite to pre-route requests. This has proved to work really great for me and my clients, because they can have their WordPress, but can also have the power of a normal PHP framework.

[eluser]jonez[/eluser]

How do we get Codeigniter to being the best PHP framework available?

That's a bit of a loaded question. There is no such thing as the "best" framework, only the most suited for a specific task. CI is great for certain tasks, Laravel is better for others, and a new framework will come out tomorrow that's better at something else.

1. License - MIT.

MIT would be nice, but it's not necessary. It's very easy to overload the core in 3. If you are directly editing core files you should be sharing your changes with the community. Open Source only works when both sides are willing to help each other. That's not directed at you ivantcholakov I know you've sent PR's, just my opinion on the license.

The real appeal to CI has always been the ease of use. Beginner or intermediate level PHP developers can benefit from “shortcuts” and functionality that handles day to day tasks, eliminating the need to re-invent the wheel. That’s about where the benefits of using CI stop.

I disagree, it depends on your project's needs.

If you are an agency or self employed CI may not be the best framework going forward. When your job is to whip out sites you want namespaces and dependency management to reduce your workload. If you work for a product company it's a very different story. Here you're writing all the business logic yourself and probably don't need namespaces.

For me CI is a rest server, it's minimalistic design and execution speed are two important factors on why I use it. In my case there is nothing Laravel or any other PHP framework offer that would improve our app. Why rewrite just because? If I was going to do that I'd use Node, not another PHP framework.

Every developer should make an informed decision based on their needs and not worry about what others are doing. CI is still a great framework and 3 is a great update.

[eluser]ivantcholakov[/eluser]
@Jones

Actually, the minimalistic design is the weakest point of CodeIgniter. If you want to start a new real-world application, you need to search for, and to choose third-party libraries for trivial features. Moths ago you presented your CI3 based starter, I have my own too, but this causes fragmentation of efforts. Many people do same features over and over again in incompatible ways.

Edit: By the way, Laravel has the same weakness - it is too minimalistic. I would not have benefit to switch there.

I think, the term "minimalistic" should be reconsidered, redefined. For example, in 2006 MVC was enough as an invention, today HMVC is mandatory, but CodeIgniter does not provide it.

About the license: skunkbad does not like the current license. Then he makes his own solution, and he came to the idea "make your own framework". This means even worse fragmentation of efforts. I think, the CI license should be the most liberal one, so anybody with capabilities to be motivated to contribute.

[eluser]jonez[/eluser]
[quote author="ivantcholakov" date="1404003763"]Actually, the minimalistic design is the weakest point of CodeIgniter. If you want to start a new real-world application, you need to search for, and to choose third-party libraries for trivial features. Moths ago you presented your CI3 based starter, I have my own too, but this causes fragmentation of efforts. Many people do same features over and over again in incompatible ways.[/quote]
I think it depends on what you need from your framework. In web applications your client is just or even bigger than your server. Here's our app breakdown:

PHP 19,503 lines
JavaScript 12,117 lines
CSS 6,396 lines

Excluding HTML it's almost 50/50 and in another month it will be 65/35 client/server. Other than 3rd party API's the only server side dependency I could have used was authentication and I wrote one in a few hours. We would never use it if it was available.

I agree that we have a lot of talented dev's in the CI community and it's a shame we can't better coordinate our efforts. My modifications would never (and probably shouldn't be) accepted into the framework as they are for a specific use case.

[eluser]sheab[/eluser]
Why I use Codeigniter:
Because it has small footprint, Good on shared hosting, It is not bloated like others.

1) Love the fact it is basic/small to get us started.. (Sometime we may need extra - Remember not always {in that case we will work around to get the addon} - its gives me goodnight sleep knowing, I do not have what I do not need)

2) Features: I understand i will get alot comments on this:
Why do i need latest features - while i have a working framework/site (I am happy as long as its keep working)
We need to understand: latest features and bleeding edges are not always great (old is Gold)

Finally, What i wish EllisLab need/could do for us:
1) keep CI as is(small, lightweight) But keep a constant update/fix

2) No need for updating php version (5.2 default), But make-sure its keep on working on future php updates (shared hosting updates their php versions - makesure Ci keeps on working)

3) Give us an release date for CI 3.0 (and release it asap - keep rolling updates)

Above all - Keep CI alive.... Thank you Nerf for your hard work!

------ EllisLab <--- thank you for not showing you care about people who love this
---------- Those who are developer/self looking for bleeding edges or latest php version.. move on to other or roll your own (dont make/post comments - Respect other who trying to keep this going (why don't you help CI to move further... help develop?) WordPress still uses php 5.2.

---------------Sorry, if i pushed anyone button-------------

[eluser]skunkbad[/eluser]
[quote author="sheab" date="1404339991"]Why I use Codeigniter:
Because it has small footprint, Good on shared hosting, It is not bloated like others.

1) Love the fact it is basic/small to get us started.. (Sometime we may need extra - Remember not always {in that case we will work around to get the addon} - its gives me goodnight sleep knowing, I do not have what I do not need)

2) Features: I understand i will get alot comments on this:
Why do i need latest features - while i have a working framework/site (I am happy as long as its keep working)
We need to understand: latest features and bleeding edges are not always great (old is Gold)

Finally, What i wish EllisLab need/could do for us:
1) keep CI as is(small, lightweight) But keep a constant update/fix

2) No need for updating php version (5.2 default), But make-sure its keep on working on future php updates (shared hosting updates their php versions - makesure Ci keeps on working)

3) Give us an release date for CI 3.0 (and release it asap - keep rolling updates)

Above all - Keep CI alive.... Thank you Nerf for your hard work!

------ EllisLab <--- thank you for not showing you care about people who love this
---------- Those who are developer/self looking for bleeding edges or latest php version.. move on to other or roll your own (dont make/post comments - Respect other who trying to keep this going (why don't you help CI to move further... help develop?) WordPress still uses php 5.2.

---------------Sorry, if i pushed anyone button-------------[/quote]

Keeping things the same isn't going to change the PHP community's perception, which is that CI is dead.

[eluser]jonez[/eluser]
[quote author="skunkbad" date="1404360338"]Keeping things the same isn't going to change the PHP community's perception, which is that CI is dead.[/quote]
By the same token you could argue PHP is dead, all the bleeding edge frameworks aren't based on it.

I think the best outcome would be for a few CI dev's to fork or continue development of the dev branch. The only annoyance I have with CI could be seen as a benefit to some; the lack of a proper (imo) default projects structure. If HMVC was baked into the core a lot of possibilities would open up that I'd be willing to contribute to.

[eluser]skunkbad[/eluser]
[quote author="jonez" date="1404404471"][quote author="skunkbad" date="1404360338"]Keeping things the same isn't going to change the PHP community's perception, which is that CI is dead.[/quote]
By the same token you could argue PHP is dead, all the bleeding edge frameworks aren't based on it.

I think the best outcome would be for a few CI dev's to fork or continue development of the dev branch. The only annoyance I have with CI could be seen as a benefit to some; the lack of a proper (imo) default projects structure. If HMVC was baked into the core a lot of possibilities would open up that I'd be willing to contribute to.[/quote]

I was talking about the PHP community, and your suggestion is to more or less keep things the same. So again, how is that going to change the attitude of the PHP community? Take a look at the popular PHP frameworks, and you'll see similarities, but CI is the oddball. It's the black sheep. It's the one nobody likes because it's not cool to like CI anymore. Just mention CI in a forum and you'll get lots of feedback on how CI is your grandma's framework. It sucks. It's outdated. It's from 10 years ago. You're not going to change perception by making minor changes. One of my biggest complaints is the license, but if you really want to know what people think about CI, just ask them in another forum. You'll get plenty of feedback.

[eluser]jonez[/eluser]
Who really cares what the PHP community thinks? I don't base my solution on what's popular at the time.

We don't need another Larvel, Phalcon, Symphony, we already have those. Why make CI something it's not? CI has strengths that can be built upon. The reality is no framework lasts forever and it's a waste of time to try to make one framework the be-all-end-all of development. Tailored solutions are always better, while it's useful keep it going, when it's not retire it. I don't think we've seen CI's EOL yet.

[eluser]skunkbad[/eluser]
[quote author="jonez" date="1404406979"]Who really cares what the PHP community thinks? I don't base my solution on what's popular at the time.

We don't need another Larvel, Phalcon, Symphony, we already have those. Why make CI something it's not? CI has strengths that can be built upon. The reality is no framework lasts forever and it's a waste of time to try to make one framework the be-all-end-all of development. Tailored solutions are always better, while it's useful keep it going, when it's not retire it. I don't think we've seen CI's EOL yet.[/quote]

The name of this thread is "How do we get CodeIgniter back to the PHP framework of choice?". The name of this thread is not "Why should we care about what other people think of CI?".