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Say No to Composer!

#31
(06-07-2019, 10:13 AM)angrymongol Wrote: https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=composer

Almost 50k questions. That is way too many questions for a supposedly simple and easy to use dependency manager.

I always liked CI specifically because it worked straight out of the box. There is nothing you need to start working other than that tiny little zip file. That is why I liked kohana too. It had some cool features. Laravel, Symfony, Zend, Cake, etc. Those things require so much unneeded crap just to get the thing running bare. Composer is one of them. So much extra crap you don't need in a production environment either. Docs, examples, other unnecessary files, etc. Let's not kid ourselves. You know over half of the files in node_modules could be deleted and would affect nothing other than disk space.

First composer != npm. Stop compare them. Two different worlds.

You logic is messed up. Most of the big php packages use comoser. Ci4 use composer to add zendframework/zend-escaper as a dependencie.

One of your problems: https://getcomposer.org/doc/01-basic-usa...poser-lock

Read it: https://phptherightway.com/#composer_and_packagist
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#32
(06-07-2019, 11:37 AM)Paradinight Wrote:
(06-07-2019, 10:13 AM)angrymongol Wrote: https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=composer

Almost 50k questions. That is way too many questions for a supposedly simple and easy to use dependency manager.

I always liked CI specifically because it worked straight out of the box. There is nothing you need to start working other than that tiny little zip file. That is why I liked kohana too. It had some cool features. Laravel, Symfony, Zend, Cake, etc. Those things require so much unneeded crap just to get the thing running bare. Composer is one of them. So much extra crap you don't need in a production environment either. Docs, examples, other unnecessary files, etc. Let's not kid ourselves. You know over half of the files in node_modules could be deleted and would affect nothing other than disk space.

First composer != npm. Stop compare them. Two different worlds.

You logic is messed up. Most of the big php packages use comoser. Ci4 use composer to add zendframework/zend-escaper as a dependencie.

One of your problems: https://getcomposer.org/doc/01-basic-usa...poser-lock

Read it: https://phptherightway.com/#composer_and_packagist

was kind of continuing on from the post before but sure. read and respond to only what you want. that is totally up to you. "Most of the big php packages" added support for composer, i suppose. They existed before composer and will so after as well.

https://codeigniter4.github.io/userguide...anual.html This must be some next level magic stuff.

I would rather have a single line of code pointing to where an already downloaded, cleaned of junk, and minified piece of code fully under my control than the BS composer tries to do. I mean, look at the links you shared and all the crap you have to do to get it working. How does that make your life easier? So you don't have to know what the hell you are using in your code? I can write an instruction on how to handle packages yourself, by hand in 4 sentences at most. Apparently you need about a magazine worth of instructions to use composer. So tell me, why is it better to use composer? I would say because you don't know how to otherwise.
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#33
(06-07-2019, 12:46 PM)angrymongol Wrote:
(06-07-2019, 11:37 AM)Paradinight Wrote:
(06-07-2019, 10:13 AM)angrymongol Wrote: https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=composer

Almost 50k questions. That is way too many questions for a supposedly simple and easy to use dependency manager.

I always liked CI specifically because it worked straight out of the box. There is nothing you need to start working other than that tiny little zip file. That is why I liked kohana too. It had some cool features. Laravel, Symfony, Zend, Cake, etc. Those things require so much unneeded crap just to get the thing running bare. Composer is one of them. So much extra crap you don't need in a production environment either. Docs, examples, other unnecessary files, etc. Let's not kid ourselves. You know over half of the files in node_modules could be deleted and would affect nothing other than disk space.

First composer != npm. Stop compare them. Two different worlds.

You logic is messed up. Most of the big php packages use comoser. Ci4 use composer to add zendframework/zend-escaper as a dependencie.

One of your problems: https://getcomposer.org/doc/01-basic-usa...poser-lock

Read it: https://phptherightway.com/#composer_and_packagist

was kind of continuing on from the post before but sure. read and respond to only what you want. that is totally up to you. "Most of the big php packages" added support for composer, i suppose. They existed before composer and will so after as well.

https://codeigniter4.github.io/userguide...anual.html This must be some next level magic stuff.

I would rather have a single line of code pointing to where an already downloaded, cleaned of junk, and minified piece of code fully under my control than the BS composer tries to do. I mean, look at the links you shared and all the crap you have to do to get it working. How does that make your life easier? So you don't have to know what the hell you are using in your code? I can write an instruction on how to handle packages yourself, by hand in 4 sentences at most. Apparently you need about a magazine worth of instructions to use composer. So tell me, why is it better to use composer? I would say because you don't know how to otherwise.

https://github.com/codeigniter4/CodeIgni...ts.php#L44
https://github.com/codeigniter4/CodeIgni...poser.json

Codeigniter put it for you together... .

If you have the time to download and update all the dependencies by yourself, you should be happy.

Time = money

composer update -> run test -> push to vcs -> create the build -> upload to stageing -> live
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#34
lol. are you a summer camp coder? stop with the dumb arguments. i tell you composer does not save you time and that is what you say? i AM happy to manage my own libraries. I am unhappy to have to be forced to use composer because there are lazy and ignorant people like you.
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#35
@angrymongol ... you are living up to your handle, at least the angry part.
CI4 lets you use composer if you are so inclined, and avoid it if that suits you better.
This thread is devolving into a flame war, which might be entertaining but is getting off topic.

The original poster asked that CI4 not *require* composer, and we pointed out that it does not.
You *can* use composer with CI4 but aren't forced to.
There are pros and cons to composer, as there are to most supporting technologies (some feel that emailing code between developers is better than github, for instance).
The community feedback about CI4 and composer is good (we can use it) and good (we don't have to use it), whereas many of the other "modern" frameworks don't give you that choice.
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#36
(06-07-2019, 02:51 PM)angrymongol Wrote: lol. are you a summer camp coder? stop with the dumb arguments. i tell you composer does not save you time and that is what you say? i AM happy to manage my own libraries. I am unhappy to have to be forced to use composer because there are lazy and ignorant people like you.

Let's try to keep these exchanges civil, please. There are always different views about things, and that's cool, but name calling is not.

I'm not a summer camp coder and I'm happy to use Composer. Composer has several parts, the most important, in my mind, is not the package management, though I do think that's been a boon to the community. To me the most important part, though, is the autoloader. At the time it came out PHP was just really growing into its more powerful object oriented capabilities. Composer became a the defacto way that people could rely on having a consistent autoloader that worked the same way, found the packages the same way, etc, no matter what project they worked on. That was huge then, and is taken for granted in much of the PHP community now.

Packages sprung up as way to easily share and reuse your code. Does it get abused sometimes? Sure. Do you occasionally get into dependency hell? In my experience - yes, but rarely. Not nearly so often as in javascript with Node and npm. There are even packages that check if your installed packages have known security vulnerabilities. Does any of this relieve us of the job of doing our own security evaluations of any packages we use. Nope.

To say it's only used by lazy "summer camp coders" is short-sighted, argumentative, and a lazy argument. And it can save time. No, it doesn't take much time to upgrade small third-party libraries by yourself. It does take time, though, to keep up to do on changes to those third party libraries, and check for security vulnerabilities, etc. Which, when using Composer, is as simple as composer update.

Anyway, didn't really reply here to argue, just to ask everyone to keep it civil and realize it is okay for people to have views and experiences different than our own.
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#37
It would be stupid to say that it's bad tool or what ever, when for years it's one of the main engines for the how PHP community.
Just compare the projects as structure and clearness today vs 8-10 years ago.. Smile

Yes, it has some minuses but each technology / language has it's + and - ...
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#38
The beauty of CI is its simplicity both in installation and coding approach.
The funny thing is, I've never used composer before until my client insisted I use Laravel for his web app.
I count the days I finished his web app so I can go back to CI.
Share what you know,
Learn what you don't
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#39
I never liked composer but since using nodejs and the insistence of npm, I can see how command tools are useful.
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