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The future of Codeigniter

#21
(06-24-2020, 08:46 AM)orionstar Wrote: @albertleao @jreklund I dont know any specific, he just disappeard. I check the old repo daily to know about any bug or issue that might affect me.

I think we should ignore @Davcon he's clearly delusional.


Davcon started off well then went off a cliff Smile.

As for CI 3.0. If it truly has no support anymore, I'd love for the heads of CI to let us know. I have a few legacy projects on it and will need to migrate off if that is the case.
Codeigniter is simply one of the tools you need to learn to be a successful developer. Always add more tools to your coding arsenal!
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#22
(06-24-2020, 10:02 AM)albertleao Wrote: As for CI 3.0. If it truly has no support anymore, I'd love for the heads of CI to let us know. I have a few legacy projects on it and will need to migrate off if that is the case.

Simply check the reported issues on github and the CVS issues (https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability...niter.html) for any security problem every week or so and patch it yourself if needed and you can use it as long as you whish. There is no need to migrate off...
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#23
David, although I like some of the stuff you post on your YouTube channel, you seem to ignore the fact that people have lives too. You can't just show up here and have demands towards the maintainers. If I remember, you decided one day to delete all your CI tutorial videos, do you feel accountable for that? Do you feel that you have done something wrong there? Did you feel that you were compelled to apologise for that. No, you did not. Because you felt you did not owe anything to anybody. Why coming here and making demands then?

Like other open source projects, there's no guarantee, you can use the software provided to you for free at your own risk and peril. That also means that if your business suffers loss because of a bug in the framework, you're the only one to blame for.

David, I don't see how you can contribute. You're a freelancer who have clearly decided that the industry standards are not suitable for you. You detest PSR standards, Unit Testing, Agile, docker and other practices adopted in the industry for years now. As a side note, I completely disagree with you there. You have no idea... But, you are entitled to your opinions and I respect you for following your heart. I don't see how you can contribute (code-wise) to the project. Clearly, coding standards there would betray your believes.

There is so much negativity in your posts and I am just surprised that the moderators have not... moderated your messages. Clearly, although there is no swearing there, you clearly attack contributors by calling them part-timers or hobbyists. Those people don't owe you anything. Also, I don't really like you patronising people from India or the Philippines in your first or second post here. What's next now, because CI hasn't been updated, people are dying? This is surreal.

Besides, if you know PHP, what stops you from fixing the bugs on your clients applications. CI is just code, it's not closed source, you can just go there and see why it's not compatible with PHP 7. You could go to the PHP manual for one and look at the migrating guide to PHP 7.

On another side note as pointed out by someone else, here or on your YT channel comments, it's just crazy that you feel you are accountable for the fact that your clients have now a newer version of PHP and the application is now broken.

Otherwise, peace and take it easy. Positiviy first.
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#24
(06-24-2020, 03:44 AM)Davcon Wrote: Ten out of ten?  So, you'd score the management ten out of ten?  And you think five years is acceptable for a framework rewrite?  THE IPHONE WAS INVENTED AND BUILT IN THREE YEARS! 

So, step aside - you arrogant little parasite - and make way for the heavyweights. 

Where's the owner?  I'll do the owner the favour of assuming that the owner has a more positive attitude.

Where's the owner?  It's about time we had a talk.

Let the owner come forward.

I'm waiting.


For someone that wanted to have a civilized discussion about this... Jesus!!!!

Also, who the hell compares a open source php framework to the iPhone creation?
Website: marcomonteiro.net  | Blog: blog.marcomonteiro.net | Twitter: @marcogmonteiro | TILThings: tilthings.com
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#25
(06-24-2020, 10:18 AM)orionstar Wrote:
(06-24-2020, 10:02 AM)albertleao Wrote: As for CI 3.0. If it truly has no support anymore, I'd love for the heads of CI to let us know. I have a few legacy projects on it and will need to migrate off if that is the case.

Simply check the reported issues on github and the CVS issues (https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability...niter.html) for any security problem every week or so and patch it yourself if needed and you can use it as long as you whish. There is no need to migrate off...

For small projects yes, but when you have large clients that have SLAs and contractual requirements to have certain standards of support for projects, it's not really an option.

At least in most of the enterprise software we write, every framework and package that is imported is thoroughly scrutinized by a separate dev team and security team. Usage and support is a huge part of that.

That's the huge advantage of Laravel or Symfony. We can fly our devs or project managers to their conferences and get direct q/a with the thousands of developers that are working on the platforms. There are also weekly security updates that makes non-techie CFOs and stuff feel a lot better about writing large checks.

Like I said in my first post. CI is really going down the road of a great framework for small or legacy projects, but at least from my experience, I have no chance of selling CI 3.0 or CI 4.0 for new projects. Only reason I still have 3.0 projects is because they're so large it's hard to migrate.
Codeigniter is simply one of the tools you need to learn to be a successful developer. Always add more tools to your coding arsenal!
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#26
So we ALL agree then ...that my discussion went down well.
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#27
(06-24-2020, 10:29 AM)Fropeasithey Wrote: "There is so much negativity in your posts and I am just surprised that the moderators have not... moderated your messages."

"Otherwise, peace and take it easy. Positiviy first."

No. He should not be "moderated". And this is not about feelings. Stick with the objective reality.

--------------------------------

He demands too much, I understand this. But open-source project or not - there is still room for improvement.

Personaly, I don't use CodeIgniter directly, I maintain my own (public) codebase, everything passes through my eyes before to be adopted for production purposes. I would recommend this approach to anybody, because this is the only way you to protect your business from technical risks. In case of a problem you could react quickly, blame-games don't solve problems.

I got familiar with CodeIgniter (1.7.3) in the year of 2011, from today's perspective I would not say that at the beginning code quality was good enough. But narfbg year after year, patiently made it good. CodeIgniter 3 is fine for production purposes, but well, its outdated architecture is a stopper. Anyway, whatever I've done with it I would be capable to maintain at least for 10 years, even on PHP8.

In my opinion about CodeIgniter 3 there was a strategic mistake - the mantras "Simple! Small Footprint!". Be careful with popular opinions. It doesn't matter whether the framework you start with is simple and fast on performance tests. What matters is how complex is the final product, clients demand a lot, so around your "simple and fast" framework a monster would grow up anyway. And let us not forget that in the past CodeIgniter was a free part of a bigger, commercial product, this is why initially it was "simple". No features, no joy.

Since 20 days I've started playing with CodeIgniter 4. I can see it would be the same story. It has bugs, It has (in my eyes, a subjective opinion) poor decisions. But this is ok, improvements need their time. Code is there, if you are a confident developer what else would you need? Are you affected by brands or PR-strategies while evaluating a product or code? What public message would you need for the purposes of so-called accountability, so you could feel confident?

I can identify some risks for CodeIgniter 4 (IMPO):

1. Although CodeIgniter 4 adopts industry statndards and practices (PSR's are good thing), it might be tempted to build too aggressively its own "identity". Why there should be unique code rules for CodeIgniter? This is waste of time, a blocker. Identity should be pursued in different ways, not by forcing people to adopt something non-standard. And a good innovation is what code does, not about how uniquely styled it looks like. Edit: And reinventing the wheel: Was it really needed CodeIgniter to propose yet another view-parser with its own syntax? Come on.

2. The mantra "Simple! Small Footprint! Easy to Learn!" might strike again. Well, today's computers are fast.

3. Bureacracy as a mindset. Blocker stuff. "Sorry, but we don't accept unsigned PRs" - don't do this.

I think, at this stage CodeIgnter 4 is better to be open to take some risks about innovation and not to be so focused on code quality tests. First it needs to grow, code quality comes later. These are my two cents.
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#28
All I got to say is that, I use to love Codeigniter.
However they have let me down big time.
Davcon has a lot of valid points here.
So it is time to face the truth and move on.
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#29
@ivantcholakov

Couldn't have said it better myself. The "small footprint" and "fast" that CI3 sold itself on has become more and more of just a marketing pitch than anything else. It costs less to spin up new EC2 instances that are getting faster and faster by the month than to spend hours and hours reinventing the wheel that has already been battle-tested in frameworks like Symfony and Laravel.

And at the end of the day, once I've added auth, orm, billing, 3rd party apis, and countless other plugins, it's no longer the framework that is holding you back. 
Codeigniter is simply one of the tools you need to learn to be a successful developer. Always add more tools to your coding arsenal!
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#30
(06-24-2020, 01:00 PM)ivantcholakov Wrote: 3. Bureacracy as a mindset. Blocker stuff. "Sorry, but we don't accept unsigned PRs" - don't do this.


I have to agree specially with this. This might seem like a small thing, but it's not. And this is just something that people forget when they are making a pull request because most aren't used to it being a rule.
Website: marcomonteiro.net  | Blog: blog.marcomonteiro.net | Twitter: @marcogmonteiro | TILThings: tilthings.com
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