[split] Arguing for an ORM

to be honest i don't really care if this (possible) solution is called ORM or not - but in my opinion we all handle data - and we all do it in different ways - which is probably good so - but all data have one common - they need to be structured.

And thats what brought us to the decision to make something which actually does this - because if you review your controller/model codes you'll see you do repetitive/redundant tasks overall your application and they all do the same - structure data

And if you inspect this closer - you'll see the amount of effort you did in order to structure those data - but in reality it can be abstracted and you (as a developer) can give those responsibility away, because its always the same.
(funny fact: one of the most controverse things in our company was actually to implement this, because 90% of our developers felt somehow lost -2 months later, everybody acknowledged that this is actually really useful)

So to come back to this topic, to structure data isn't opinionated, but a need - and i don't really understand, why some lead developer want to avoid exact this topic.

That said, i don't think you've to actually use it rather than you can use it, it always should be optional. But in my opinion it's mandatory in modern development, that a framework should provide that functionality - and it really doesn't matter whether your source is a CSV File or a Database, the underlying Mappingsystem should be able to handle both...

The problem arises in what else developers expect an "ORM" to do, and there is no single ORM that would keep all the developers happy. You suggest that managing relationships would suffice, but others insist that their ORM should generate scaffolding, or should have container-based persistence or entity-based persistence.

Yeah - i heard and read this argumentation a lot - but for me, this isn't an argumentation at all - rather than a responsibility shift, which isn't necessary - because you as the Framework Host and Owner take this decision after all. And thats the reason why i wrote this, because if i ignore your argumentation (by any means - no offense...), i'm able to discuss this based on the facts i pictured above, and thats't it - just to start a discussion, how to structure data on an automated way (it really doesn't matter if you call this ORM or not).