[PHP Frameworks] Looking for opinions

[eluser]jakot05[/eluser]
Hi everybody!,

First things first, I would just like to say thanks for such a great piece of software :-)

This is my very first thread and maybe you will not like it because Im looking for advice in a tough decision. In the past week I have been testing several PHP frameworks, and at this point I have three "finalist" but I cant make a decision:

1. Zend Framework
Pros:
- API documentation
- "by Zend Technologies Ltd."
- A lot of components, including "official" stuff from Microsoft, Google and Adobe
- ACL and Auth components by default (important to me)
Cons:
- Learning curve (simple things was like a nightmare)
- Performance (third part opinion)

2. Kohana
Pros:
- Easier than ZF
- Auth component by default
- PHP5
Cons:
- Lack of documentation
- Community driven projects make me nervous (IMHO)

3. Codeigniter
Pros:
- Learning curve (the easiest)
- Community
- "Part of EllisLab, Inc."
- Performance (third part opinion)
- Great documentation
Cons:
- Not ACL or Auth component by default :-(
- PHP4

I appreciate any comments or suggestion,
(BTW, My intention is not "flaming", Im just looking for other points of view)

Thanks,

[eluser]jpi[/eluser]
One day people should stop complaining about CI being in PHP 4. That's not an issue, not even a con. If you want to use some PHP5 specific features, you can ! It's all up to you. If your server runs PHP5 then you still benefit from Zend Engine 2, even if CI code is not "PHP5 only".

I find that, at the moment, Ellislab is not very responsive regarding CI. A lot of bugs (or "may" bugs) (in forum or bugtracker) and features request have not received a reply.

[eluser]jakot05[/eluser]
[quote author="jpi" date="1248786366"]...
I find that, at the moment, Ellislab is not very responsive regarding CI. A lot of bugs (or "may" bugs) (in forum or bugtracker) and features request have not received a reply.[/quote]

Thanks, I didnt knew it. Very interesting point.

[eluser]jpi[/eluser]
It's only my opinion. And there is no major bug that is currently unpatched. And even programmers can take summer holidays

[eluser]devbro[/eluser]
kohana and CI are essentially the same thing, they work in the same way, have similar approaches. (i think Kohana is OOP rewrite of CI)

I really wanted a pure PHP5 and OOP but since CI has EL behind it i decided to go with CI for now.

I like a few thing in Kohana, but I found CI essentially more reliable in terms of documentation. in many cases I found my answers in the documentation instead of forum.

btw, would there ever be a pure and PHP5 of CI?

[eluser]jedd[/eluser]
Hi devbro,

You really sound like you know what you're talking about. Can I ask you a few questions?

[quote author="devbro" date="1248837116"]kohana and CI are essentially the same thing, they work in the same way, have similar approaches. (i think Kohana is OOP rewrite of CI)[/quote]

What OOP stuff is lacking in CI and that Kohana provides?

I really wanted a pure PHP5 and OOP but since CI has EL behind it i decided to go with CI for now.

a) why?
b) what benefits do you envisage from a 'pure PHP5' implementation?
c) what PHP5 code have you ever written that breaks CI?

I like a few thing in Kohana

Can you list these things?

btw, would there ever be a pure and PHP5 of CI?

I expect so, but PHP6 is going to be available Real Soon Now - so I expect an influx of n00bs complaining about how CI still supports that crappy old PHP5 thing (it's so 2009, don't you know?). In reality I expect that we'll always have a disparity between what people think they want and what is really best for them, but what can you do?

[eluser]jakot05[/eluser]
[quote author="devbro" date="1248837116"]...

btw, would there ever be a pure and PHP5 of CI?[/quote]

In others threads I read that is 'easy' to port CI to php5 or even 6. Is viable to have parallel versions of the same framework?, I mean something like "CI for PHP <4" and "CI for PHP 5>", the same way like linux kernel versions. Or is this senseless?

[eluser]devbro[/eluser]
The issue with OOP of CI is that it is based on simple implementation of OOP for PHP4. in PHP5 and PHP6 the approach is fully different and provide a more solid concepts.

I am/was a computer sci major student and learnt proper project development and project designing. As a result it is much easier for me to look and design on object instead of linear events. that is why i prefer OOP even thought in some cases causes overhead.

PHP5 has a lot of new functions that provide easier way of doing things. Also nature of some function in PHP5 is changed. what worries me is that PHP6 is planning to abandon all problems and workaround of PHP4. it will result in non PHP5 codes to be consider, obsolete, and I am ready to switch the second it is released. if you be aware CI core code is PHP4 and PHP5 complaint but it is not PHP6 complaint.

my primary issues with CI and PHP5 so far:
1. php 5.3 causes slight issue with CI,(it has a simple fix)
2. __construct() vs calss_name() (i occasionally forget that I need which one)
3. $config approach is primary a result of php4 OOP coding.

the thing I really like about kohana is how everything is OO and no $config is used. This way when I look at the code it is much more comfortable to the eyes and I do not need to care if $config, multi-function-call, or OO is used to achieve a goal. Kohana also addresses some issues in CI, such as form_validation(CI does not cover $_FILES validation and work directly on $_POST)(data for views should be loaded into arrays and sent using load->view(), in Kohana you can load variables one at a time and call render )(kohana allows for modular coding, meaning files that are related to each other can be kept in the same folder)

I am looking to see what CI 1.7.2 or CI 2.0 is gonna add. depending on new features/changes I may switch to Kohana myself.

[eluser]jedd[/eluser]

In others threads I read that is 'easy' to port CI to php5 or even 6. Is viable to have parallel versions of the same framework?, I mean something like "CI for PHP <4" and "CI for PHP 5>", the same way like linux kernel versions. Or is this senseless?

Although I have absolutely no idea what you mean by 'same way like linux kernel versions', I do feel that you are 100% correct with your assessment.

[eluser]devbro[/eluser]
[quote author="jakot05" date="1248841728"][quote author="devbro" date="1248837116"]...

btw, would there ever be a pure and PHP5 of CI?[/quote]

In others threads I read that is 'easy' to port CI to php5 or even 6. Is viable to have parallel versions of the same framework?, I mean something like "CI for PHP <4" and "CI for PHP 5>", the same way like linux kernel versions. Or is this senseless?[/quote]


yes it is very easy to port. just change class_names() to __construct() the only thing that worries me is the custom code written on top of core classes.