Now i wonder if CodeIgniter is the answer.

[eluser]richfearless[/eluser]
Hi Folks,

I have been on a seemly never-ending journey to build a product that can be easily shape shifted toward my needs as a web-application, i recently found CodeIgniter I took stuff i like, setup matchbox, and soon realised what a bloated setup i had, and that was only from 2-3 months of 'hoarding' stuff i like.

Now i am again at the confusion cross roads, not sure which direction to head, what has run through my mind is, scrapping it and going even more simple with less clutter and less folders of icons and potential icons, and rather just keeping code, but how do you manage it all, how do you know when files have changed since you last worked on a project?

I know this is a hot topic here at the CI Forums, but what is the answer? This is the question: i wish to modify my framework to be easily setup and cutting those repetitive tasks like each website needing a administration interface. What can be recommended? i use VERTRIGOSERV web server, NuSphere PHPed, Dreamweaver and Photoshop. Should i be using more than this?

Perhaps i have high expectations, but i have this ideal dream where all my applications can be improved instead of segregated from one another.

[eluser]rogierb[/eluser]
Ah, the well know pittfall.

Just a quick word of advise, take all the functionality you can think of at the moment.
Then start (re)desinging your application.

When you are finished on paper(yes paper, not code). Multiply your functionality by ten and see if that would still fit your design.

If it fits, perfect. Otherwise back to the drawing board 'cause every most applications of us have ever worked on will grow and grow and grow.

As for files being changed, use some form of repository like svn, git or whatever your preference.

[eluser]n0xie[/eluser]
[quote author="richfearless" date="1254762886"]realised what a bloated setup i had[/quote]
Define 'bloated'.

[quote author="richfearless" date="1254762886"]
less clutter and less folders
[/quote]
That is personal preference I assume. I rather organize my files in lots of directories, then putting them all in one directory.

[quote author="richfearless" date="1254762886"]
how do you know when files have changed since you last worked on a project?
[/quote]
Source Code Managment. Take a look at SVN or GIT.

[quote author="richfearless" date="1254762886"]
I know this is a hot topic here at the CI Forums, but what is the answer?
[/quote]
I can't remember a lot of posts about CI being disorganized or bloated as you describe it. Quite the contrary actually.

[quote author="richfearless" date="1254762886"]
i wish to modify my framework to be easily setup and cutting those repetitive tasks like each website needing a administration interface. What can be recommended?
[/quote]
SVN export stable code igniter version. Copy personal backend. Done?

[quote author="richfearless" date="1254762886"]
i have this ideal dream where all my applications can be improved instead of segregated from one another.[/quote]
Could you explain exactly what it is you're trying to do. I have a hard time grasping what exactly the problem is.

[eluser]sl3dg3hamm3r[/eluser]
@reachfearless: Do I overread something, or are you simply looking for something like a version-control system? SVN might be something for you.

[quote author="rogierb" date="1254763481"]When you are finished on paper(yes paper, not code). Multiply your functionality by ten and see if that would still fit your design[/quote]
Don't quite agree. I rather tend to stick to the extreme programming paradigma: don't plan what could be in future - it'll come anyhow different than you expected. Rather stick to iterations. And if it starts to get completely messy, reengineer your code and bring it to the next level.

[eluser]n0xie[/eluser]
[quote author="sl3dg3hamm3r" date="1254764042"]
[quote author="rogierb" date="1254763481"]When you are finished on paper(yes paper, not code). Multiply your functionality by ten and see if that would still fit your design[/quote]
Don't quite agree. I rather tend to stick to the extreme programming paradigma: don't plan what could be in future - it'll come anyhow different than you expected.[/quote]
YAGNI!!!! ;-)

[eluser]sl3dg3hamm3r[/eluser]
[quote author="n0xie" date="1254764119"][quote author="sl3dg3hamm3r" date="1254764042"]
[quote author="rogierb" date="1254763481"]When you are finished on paper(yes paper, not code). Multiply your functionality by ten and see if that would still fit your design[/quote]
Don't quite agree. I rather tend to stick to the extreme programming paradigma: don't plan what could be in future - it'll come anyhow different than you expected.[/quote]
YAGNI!!!! ;-)[/quote]
aaaaand.... KISS!!

[eluser]rogierb[/eluser]
[quote author="n0xie" date="1254764119"][quote author="sl3dg3hamm3r" date="1254764042"]
[quote author="rogierb" date="1254763481"]When you are finished on paper(yes paper, not code). Multiply your functionality by ten and see if that would still fit your design[/quote]
Don't quite agree. I rather tend to stick to the extreme programming paradigma: don't plan what could be in future - it'll come anyhow different than you expected.[/quote]
YAGNI!!!! ;-)[/quote]

YAGNI, well not really what I was pointing towards... But point taken %-P

[eluser]richfearless[/eluser]
All your input is much appreciated
Lets put my question into another question: When you recieve a project do you begin with a clean extracted version of CI then start planning(on paper some of you) how the application is going to work. Or do you have a basic 'flavour' of CI with some of your i-will-always-use-this functionality included in your framework? Almost like a CMS but without the design/themes/etc..

I am trying to build that flavour of ci, something i can start a project on packed with the stuff i am most likely going to use.

[eluser]n0xie[/eluser]
We have a lot of handy helpers, libraries, plugins and models collected over time. When I start a new project, I usually just get a fresh CI install, add some standard helpers and models (including MY_Controller stuff), and then just add other items when they are needed.

We do have a basic CMS for simple content pages which I use a lot, as well as a simple tool to generate a model, view and controller based on a database table (handy when porting older applications, or applications written by others).

Then again we make a lot of customized sites so there is no generic mould to use for most of our work. Just re-use parts that you used before.

I think what you look for is a modular design approach. Take a look at both matchbox, HMVC and PyroCMS which implements this.

[eluser]hooflung64[/eluser]
I usually start with a fresh install of CI when beginning a new project. Modularity would be nice but honestly its just one more thing to manage. If it was built into CI then I'd use it more but having to keep up with other people's work can be fustrating and sprawl out of control meaning more revision control and more testing.

That is why I would probably spend more time at your needs assessment stage so you can cut back on 'bloat' later.