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Javascript-Only Sites?
#1

[eluser]Vik[/eluser]
It seems like the site I'm developing would be much easier to use if I could do a user interface that requires the visitor to have Javascript. Here's why:

One of my pages will have about 20 popup menus on it. Depending on what the user selects in each one, a new, additional popup menu will appear, with its contents determined by what the user selected in the previous one.

With Javascript, I can (theoretically at least - I'm still working on the code) make this happen.

Without it, I'll have to have a different user interface - one that is more cumbersome for the user.

I looked up how many browsers have Javascript enabled (http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat_trends.htm). It seems to be 95%:

Quote:Java and JavaScript Trends

This discusses trends in Java and JavaScript usage.
Summary

A significant number of users have browsers in which Java or JavaScript are not enabled. The percentage has decreased somewhat over the years, but it will likely remain significant for years to come.
Recommendation

Java and JavaScript should generally not be used for things which affect a site’s functionality. They are best used to make a site look more attractive.
Details

You can find information about JavaScript, including which browsers support which versions of JavaScript, in Wikipedia.

TheCounter (Jun 2007) reports these levels of support:
[.....]
Users JavaScript Support
5% none/disabled
95% enabled

Sites which need Java or JavaScript to function will deter users who have disabled them, therefore such sites will have more visitors with scripting enabled, but exact percentages likely will depend a lot on the site, and such percentages are not available.

But this quote also says, "JavaScript should generally not be used for things which affect a site’s functionality."

So the question is, with 95% of web browsers using Javascript, why is it a mistake to rely on Javascript for a site's functionality?
#2

[eluser]Skulls[/eluser]
95% is a great percentage but remember that javascript can be turned off and on from the browser at any time
#3

[eluser]gunter[/eluser]
Quote:But this quote also says, “JavaScript should generally not be used for things which affect a site’s functionality.”

I don´t believe that!
what´s really stupid are sites that are only in flash...
imagine maps.google.com without javascript...
#4

[eluser]thurting[/eluser]
My advice, if you want to use JavaScript then use it. Sure it would be nice if your site degraded properly, but that takes a lot of work and might not be feasible. Just make sure you include some noscript tags to alert users that your page requires JavaScript.

If you want to go full Flash, then do it. To say a Flash site is "stupid", is itself "stupid". On levels of visual appeal and interactivity, Flash can be far more expressive than HTML and DHTML. The Flash player is installed on 99+% of all machines, which means it is probably the most ubiquitous piece of software that exists right now. Just do it properly and alert the user should they not have the plugin installed. Chances are that if your site will benefit from Flash, a user who doesn't have the plugin installed wasn't in you target demo anyway.

Sure there are drawbacks to heavy use of JavaScript and Flash, but there are drawbacks to heavy use of all technologies. The standards compliant crowd needs to relax.
#5

[eluser]ELRafael[/eluser]
depends the application... and the thrusth that user has with your site too!!

remmeber the acessibility too!!! some persons needs speacial features to see the website... so, like i told, depends the application!!!

[]
#6

[eluser]alpar[/eluser]
When making use of Javascript and Flash think of SEO it with accessibility are very important and i don't see anybody mentioning them. as thurting said Flash is indeed more expressive, than html, but it's binary format that permits such expressibility is what pulls it back. Imagine if you could put your PHP in a flash like you do it with html, or if spiders could understand it like they do understand text, and besides many browsers have it (i'm not sure about 99%, i don't know any statistics but find it odd to have more flash players than Javascript enabled browsers), everybody would be jumping towards it.

Personally i avoid Flash as much as i can, and try to go with html, i also try to avoid JS but that's not always possible. A great place to use JS are the back ends, you can tell your client to use a JS enabled browser, to have way more functionality (don't forget to agree on that before you actually code anything Smile )

The bottom line is that you shouldn't use nether Flash or JS to impress the user or to show how solid skills you have. Generally users are not technical so they care about finding what they need,and have the most functionality they can get.
#7

[eluser]thurting[/eluser]
http://www.adobe.com/products/player_cen...ation.html
#8

[eluser]wojtekk[/eluser]
who cares about ppl who got JS disabled , so many pages r in AJAX today, with nice JS effects so why should anybody disable it. Ye ye there r bad scripts outthere , for them i say FireFox (no bad scripts allowed).
Search engines also dont see JS so u should make all navigation in XHTML.
Just put message 'u need JS on this page'.


Pages in FLASH sucks (not SEO friendly, search engines dont see them). In FLASH u can make some product pages, presentation, advertisment and cool effects on site.
#9

[eluser]xwero[/eluser]
I think it's good practice to develop fully functional server-side website (have i just said that Smile ) and develop the javascript functionality on top.

If you tend to do much in javascript you could forget to check your user input server side which opens your website for attacks.

The three things you have to ask yourself are
- is the site safe for users and the owner
- what kind of an audience do you want to attract
- can the content get picked up by spiders if needed
#10

[eluser]thurting[/eluser]
Quote:Pages in FLASH sucks (not SEO friendly, search engines dont see them). In FLASH u can make some product pages, presentation, advertisment and cool effects on site.

I don't want to get into an argument about Flash, but I have been an AS developer for 5+ years and can tell you that there are numerous ways to display the textual content of your Flash site to a web crawler. Furthermore, I have found that, in general, rank is based on the number and quality of incoming links. I'm not saying Flash should be used for everything, and actually don't think it should be used for highly dynamic and information heavy sites, but think that in certain cases it's expressiveness can be used to communicate a brand message much more effectively than through the use of HTML. At the end of the day, it comes down to what you are selling and who you are selling it to. To ignore Flash completely would be a mistake that potentially disconnects you from a whole market.




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