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Governance
#1

Hi, I was looking around the website and noticed CodeIgniter is owned by a Foundation, which is great, but there is no listing of the current Board or any meeting minutes.
I found a 2019 thread listing 3 directors but after 5 years I didn't have a lot of confidence that information was accurate.
Who are the current Board members? Has there been any Board meetings in 2024 or financial reports?
With the latest WordPress governance issues, I'm looking to vet my dependencies for their governance structures, and I think it'd be great if there was more information about this on the CodeIgniter website. I actually think this is as important as technical documentation at this point, because I want to invest in a system that is sustainable, not maximizing profitability for its shareholders.
Thanks!
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#2

CodeIgniter is Open Source there are no Share Holders.

The CodeIgniter Foundation is finally here
What did you Try? What did you Get? What did you Expect?

Joined CodeIgniter Community 2009.  ( Skype: insitfx )
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#3

(This post was last modified: 12-24-2024, 11:19 AM by lincolnwebs.)

> CodeIgniter is Open Source there are no Share Holders.

Open source is not a governance model, it's how the code is shared & licensed. Shareholders are for corporations; I was referring to WordPress's situation and am clear on the difference. CodeIgniter is a foundation, and foundations have Boards with Directors. That's a legal requirement of the chosen structure (a nonprofit society registered in British Columbia, Canada).

I'd previously read the thread you linked — that is the source of the information contained in my questions.
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#4

CodeIgniter Foundation in place

Jim Parry (CA) - president, but Jim had passed away a few years ago and is no long with us.
What did you Try? What did you Get? What did you Expect?

Joined CodeIgniter Community 2009.  ( Skype: insitfx )
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#5

so the post is vacant, where can I get an application form ? (tongue in cheek)
CMS CI4 A CMS system, runs out of the box written on top of CI4
Arch Book  CodeIgniter4 on Apache(pages 92-114) 
Github  
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#6

(This post was last modified: 12-25-2024, 02:09 PM by lincolnwebs.)

kilishan (Lonnie?) elaborates here, and notes they are now the de facto lead: https://forum.codeigniter.com/showthread.php?tid=75235

It says that perhaps one of Parry's relatives will join the Board as the BC member and bringing them back to 3. However, I could find no confirmation that ever happened.

The next discussion of governance is this flippant thread which goes nowhere: https://forum.codeigniter.com/showthread.php?tid=76815

On the code side it's even odder.

kenji appears to be the dominant contributor to CI4: https://github.com/codeigniter4/CodeIgni...ntributors

Confusingly, that is under a "CodeIgniter4" org on GitHub, with the "CodeIgniter" org seemingly inactive https://github.com/codeigniter

Meanwhile, the org "bcit-ci" controls CodeIgniter 3 (last updated 3 Mar 2022 https://github.com/bcit-ci/CodeIgniter/) and this website's repo (last updated 5 years ago, prior to Parry's passing https://github.com/bcit-ci/codeigniter-website)

This suggests no one is firmly in control of the assets, except _perhaps_ the CodeIgniter4 org.

USPTO lists BRITISH COLUMBIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY as the owner of the trademark, suggesting that Parry may have registered the Foundation but never formally got it running, nor got ownership of this key asset. I'd guess no tax documents were ever filed, meaning it's effectively defunct and probably its membership is symbolic at this point but legally moot.

kilishan stopped visiting this site in June. The last major news / roundup I found is here, from 1 year ago: https://forum.codeigniter.com/showthread.php?tid=89075

kenji stopped committing to CI4 in September of this year, but is still approving PRs as of this month.

I obviously don't know if there's a private contributors channel somewhere, but publicly it appears CI governance has drifted onto the proverbial rocks.

I am mostly just posting this to document how far I got in my research so far. I'd be happy to help administratively if anyone in leadership wants to chat, but otherwise I'm going to pause there for a while and check on a few other things before I pull on this thread further.

Also, apologies if any of that seemed rude or insensitive, I realize I'm a stranger here, just trying to assess the level of effort that would be required to invest time into the project or using it as a dependency. The world's changing fast, but I suspect CodeIgniter still has a place in it. If you're interested, this is me: https://lincolnwebs.com/about/ — I managed the Vanilla Forums project for most of its existence, and its bespoke framework was heavily inspired by CodeIgniter, so while I've never been a direct user, I've been in the general ballpark most of my career.
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#7

(This post was last modified: 12-25-2024, 02:50 PM by captain-sensible. Edit Reason: outrageous use of english )

quote : The world's changing fast, but I suspect CodeIgniter still has a place in it

Well the world changes fast in some places,  and pretty much doesn't change hardly at all in other places.

If you take the 3rd world for web, they mostly use WordPress   installed onto  a server somewhere rather than directly having their web on wordpress.com ( as you might be doing )

Now if you were to teach ICT in the 3rd world which I have been involved in , then php is not a bad language  if  as a tool for teaching ICT  it is used in the right way. 

Now  i also don't wish to offend but people playing with wordpress  are deluding themselves if they think they are learning coding  ; there are  sites of some stature , which have zero security in place .

 Now  to introduce  the concept of class and method  , inheritance and the like is fantastic . You can do that with CodeIgniter; its easy to write your own class and a piece of cake to download CodeIgniter, get started with it and integrate your own classes.

 Other frameworks such as Laravel last time I looked at it, i couldn't find anything on how to integrate my own code. You couldn't even just  use a terminal with composer to set things up. Last time I looked at laravel they mention virtual, homestead and a load of other stuff

Now expanding , clarifying whats going  on in CodeIgniter4  is welcomed by at least by me .  The critical thing for me is that there would be someone  someone  preferably,  a none coder , at a level above coders to have a  vision where CodeIgniter4 is going , and to  direct coders. 

I will edit later
CMS CI4 A CMS system, runs out of the box written on top of CI4
Arch Book  CodeIgniter4 on Apache(pages 92-114) 
Github  
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#8

My two cents...

Any open-source project is all about the community, which drives the project and provides innovation.
So far, the Foundation has never set the project’s direction per se - it was always community-driven.
If you want to help the framework grow, submit a PR, create a library, or write a tutorial or blog post. If you want to help on the administrative side (whatever that means), write to Lonnie at his email address. If he needs help, he'll write back.

CodeIgniter will be here one way or another as long as there are users who want to use it.
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#9

(12-26-2024, 11:18 AM)michalsn Wrote: My two cents...

Any open-source project is all about the community, which drives the project and provides innovation.
So far, the Foundation has never set the project’s direction per se - it was always community-driven.
If you want to help the framework grow, submit a PR, create a library, or write a tutorial or blog post. If you want to help on the administrative side (whatever that means), write to Lonnie at his email address. If he needs help, he'll write back.

CodeIgniter will be here one way or another as long as there are users who want to use it.
It's a fine position, but one I no longer share having had the proverbial rug pulled on me a few too many times. Most software — including GitHub, hosting systems, and this very forum — are designed to give ultimate authority to 1 individual. Without governance, you are constantly at risk. If you want to invest time into things that will outlive you, investing in governance first is non-optional.
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#10

(This post was last modified: 12-28-2024, 07:42 PM by Crenel.)

I see this as a valid concern.

If you approach something as a hobby, where the doing of the thing is where you find value, then it won't matter if you end up doing the thing differently later because things changed abruptly.

But if you approach something as building to persist for others (whether or not for profit), then it's important to minimize investments for which the value suddenly drops to zero, such as investing significant time into using a PHP framework that suddenly becomes unusable for one reason or another.

The code being open source and suitably licensed allows forking into a new project with different people, governance, etc., but that does not preserve the original project and the community involved with it, It only preserves the fork and its new community, which might consist of a single individual who forked it. For those who invest development time or other resources into non-hobby projects using the original project, the survival of the original project matters.

(12-26-2024, 11:18 AM)michalsn Wrote: So far, the Foundation has never set the project’s direction per se - it was always community-driven.

"Never" and "always" might be misleading here, because CI was not always the Foundation's project. "Always" and "never" in the context of CI includes its ownership by EllisLab, which I believe did not leave direction of the project to the community until it transferred the project to BCIT.
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